thoughts on sharing

[MatthewShiner]

I was having drinks with a stage manager friend of mine who is not on the network, but recently stumble on to this site . . . they spent some time on it, but ultimately decided not to join.

I asked why.  They had some valid reasons - but something very interesting, I never thought of, and it really caused me to pause. 

Some serious pause.

They said, “Why should I help other stage managers.  I mean, they are just going to be competing with me for jobs . . . for my livelihood.   Why should I be helping other people be better at that job I am trying to make a living at.”

There was a long pause in the conversation.  I ordered two more drinks.

I do have to admit this community is skewed a bit towards younger stager managers, and those of us who are more established in the business that continue to contribute to this community do so because we enjoy sharing and teaching - but it does beg the question - why?  Why should we continue to share and teach - to eventually add to the competition for jobs that are indeed in short supply.

Why should stage managers, who are competing in a very competitive market, be sharing and helping out in a very wide spread community like this?  I could see sharing and helping out in a more close knit, smaller “coven” of stage managers who more like minded, geographically bound and closely related in the type of work they do - stage managers who might work together . . . .but to be honest, I have to admit, I have been sharing a lot of information, and giving out a lot of free advice to people who might indeed be taking jobs away from me . . .

thoughts about this?

is this why there are not more seasoned stage managers actively participating in the community?  (or is that more a time / technology / age issue  . . . )

just interested to see why others continue to share . . .

[avkid]

This topic is very near to my heart.

I participate in many internet forums that are dedicated to education.

Those who believe that sharing their trade secrets will lead to their undoing (or unemployment) are probably insecure to begin with.

By sharing tricks and procedures we raise the standard of the community at large.

If someone uses the advice the I give them to take a job from me chances are they might have gotten it anyway.

Just as generations of master craftsmen have trained apprentices to prevent the craft from dying out we must do the same.

[Celeste_SM]

My answer is simply, "it's the right thing to do."

That said, I don't participate as much in the community as I might because I'm not an AEA stage manager. In general the prevailing attitude is that if you aren't AEA, then you aren't a professional. I understand that perspective, although I don't agree with it.  But as a result, I tend only to chime in when the question pertains to GA contract, community theater or school theater productions. I don't know if I qualify as "seasoned" with 18 years of part-time stage managing behind me.

Also, since I don't rely on stage management for my primary income, I guess I'm not afraid of competition. For non full-time jobs, there is plenty of work to go around. I want every stage manager to be excellent, because it bring up the reputation of the job in general. I think it leads to higher quality theater as well as better experiences for people who create theater.

[nick_tochelli]

The reason I am here and have been since college is a simple reason: No one taught me how to do this. And very frequently I see it's the same way with a lot of people on this site.

I've learned a lot by trial and error. If I can help someone through a situation I've gone through, great. Call me a softy, but being an educator seems to be, and is becoming, a large part of who I am as a person and a professional.

I agree with you Celeste. "It's the right thing to do", and in my opinion competition be damned.

[PSMKay]

Currently living in the Baltimore area there is a woman who has been a friend of mine since 3rd grade. She was also my primary competitor for years - we competed for roles (usually a 50/50 split), we competed for boys (she always won), we competed for GPA in the same classes (I kicked her tush every time). She was also my best friend for the last three years of high school. She went from rival to friend when I was able to set the competition aside and teach her how to play jazz flute for the school band. Now, for the first time since the early 90's, we've got the same job. She's a real estate agent - and a top notch one at that. But while we're in the same industry, we're not in the same market. I'm in Chicago, she's in Baltimore. And now I am learning by watching her. When I read her blog I think, "this is someone who knows her job really well." Yes, I'm a little jealous. But threatened? Not at all.

Can you really say that a community theatre SM in North Dakota is really   competing for the same jobs as a regional AEA SM in Raleigh? Can you   really say that a corporate SM in Singapore is vying for the same jobs   as someone who coordinates cues for a college in Maine? No, but all of   their contributions are valuable and one person's advice could very well   assist the other.
 
We tried smaller regional networks - in fact, in the early years I built a test-balloon Seattle area mini SMNet that never really took off. I was approached in 2009 to do another spinoff for the southeastern US. In both cases, there wasn't the volume of discussion nor a strong promoter-type leader to get it off the ground. I cannot really quantify the amount of cheerleading and cultivation it took to get the site to become self-sustaining. If a regional network were to emerge outside of NYC or London I would certainly welcome it, but until then the internet will have to do.

Yes, you might be training your competition. Yes, there are times that the skills you've taught will come back to bite you in the butt. Matthew will know of one such situation that remains prominent in my memory.

But what if you're training your future ASM? What if you're training your successor? What if you're building your own expertise and your own reputation by contributing here? I have to say, the easiest interview I ever had for a stage management position was with a PM who followed SMNet. She knew exactly who I was and it served as a wonderful icebreaker. In the years since I stopped SMing, I've shown apartments to stage manager clients in Chicago who have no clue who Kay Cleaves is, but definitely know the name PSMKay.

Analogy time. My manager says that it isn't slideshows or market analyses or pretty pictures of houses that makes a client choose their real estate agent. They choose an agent because they like him/her and because the agent's ability to assemble and convey those skills makes a successful connection.

Similarly, many actors study the same techniques. Viewpoints, Stanislavski, Meyerhold. They'll study with the same teachers. They'll warm up with the same games and exercises. Yet if they all read for the same role, only one will fit, and the reasons are not necessarily related to their skill but a combination of factors including reputation, connections, impact, presence, skill, practice and embodiment of the role.

I view sharing knowledge as leveling the   playing field. Stage management is such an esoteric and malleable art   that no matter what sugar and spice are provided here, Ingredient X is always your personal spin on what you learn here. If you provide 3500 different stage managers with the same tools, every one of them will interpret and   implement them differently. Every show will require a different subset and application of those tools to be successful.

I do not doubt that there are many people who hold to the same concept as Matthew's friend. After all, the unregistered guests on SMNet generally outnumber the registered members on at least a 2:1 basis at any given point in the day. I can also see this kind of defensiveness as a reasonable reaction of someone who is insecure in their position, their knowledge, or their rank in the general pecking order of the industry. Many people in theatre survive on those feelings of insufficiency as a means to keep working harder. However, SM being a lonely profession in many parts of the world, I think that disseminating the information we discover and share here remains absolutely critical.

To those who are worried about lessening their own impact, I challenge   you - take it further. Learn what's here and then push it in your head   to the next level. Make it your own, make yours better than ours. If you choose to come back and share what you've   learned with the rest of the class, great, you've just raised stage   management to the next level as an industry. If   not, chances are that someone else will stumble on the same idea - maybe not as quickly as you, but they will think of it. They'll share it, they'll get the credit for it, and they'll build their rep instead. Personally, I think an SM with the confidence to share what they've learned with the world - and to do so with enthusiasm and vigor - is an SM who can handle anything that comes their way with aplomb.

PS to Celeste: I was never AEA, and for   the first few years I was writing about 95% of the content on SMNet. I   had about 2 years of experience in year one of the site. Most of that stuff is still   floating around the boards somewhere. Within the past month I linked in a post to the very first form that I uploaded to SMNet eleven years ago, so some of it's even still valid. Please, jump on in!

[dallas10086]

I'm not in a diplomatic mood today but I'll try to add my opinion without offending. 

I agree with PSMKay. Maybe it's because I've dabbled in education, but I have a difficult time understanding why someone wouldn't want to share their knowledge. And to state that your reason is because you don't want to equip someone with the tools to become your competition is showing that 1. you think they're capable of doing so, 2. you're at least a little unsure that your combined abilities aren't substantial enough to get you jobs or 3. you think you're holding the Holy Grail of stage management, which, to speak frankly, sounds pompous.

Imagine if the greats in other industries felt the same way your friend did, Matt. Where would those industries be? How would the world of cooking be if Julia Child didn't publish Mastering the Art of French Cooking and just kept it to herself? Where would actors be without Stanislavski and Kazan sharing what they've learned to the next generation of performers? If the masters of music composition didn't take on students, if the masters of the art world didn't take on apprentices...the world would be quite different. They taught others so that when they were done their students could take it to the next level and improve their industry as a whole.
The other side to that coin is that be careful who you share with. Someone who is on your same level, who is constantly on the same short lists as you for the same jobs, who walks in the same tight circles and knows the same people...of course there's a real threat there. But someone who's still new to the whole thing, who may not be in the same field in five, ten years down the road, who may decide not to join the union, who may work in another part of the US, who may go work in Indonesia instead, or join the circus... The world of stage management is not limited to Broadway. There are jobs in other places around the world, and the weak ones will give way to the strong ones. At least, you certainly hope so!

Authors in the art of selling your brand will tell you the same thing: show yourself as an expert in your field and the jobs will come to you. They also say that to show yourself as an expert, give a part of yourself for free: teach classes, give lectures, write articles, make speeches, mentor students. No one will know you're an expert if you're huddled in a corner with your toy yelling, "Mine! Mine!". So to speak.
The beauty of what we do is that no two people do everything the same way: paperwork, blocking, handling problems, talking with actors, etc. We all do it differently. Someone may be getting advice from 20 people but may only follow the advice of 3. Why? Because the way they interpret the advice, if it suits their style, if it suits their personality, all depend on what advice they gravitate towards

Yes, I've also noticed the influx of high school and college students into the forum. The ratio of students brand new to the field to those that have been plugging at it for a large part of their lives is growing. But by the time those students are at the level you are at right now, you're likely to be gone, either out of the industry or in a more permanent sense. Knowledge gained from experience, not book knowledge, is what makes a stage manager an expert in the field. To think that a senior fresh out of college is ready to compete with you who has been around the block (hell, built the block) is going to be a real threat of competition is being narrow-minded.

That's not to say you should give up everything you know. I mean, c'mon, it's one thing to give you the recipe. Quite another to withhold that secret award-winning ingredient. If they're a good enough cook they'll stumble on it on their own anyway.

I hope that all came across somewhat coherently.

[MatthewShiner]

Another good laugh . . .

Yes, I've also noticed the influx of high school and college students into the forum. The ratio of students brand new to the field to those that have been plugging at it for a large part of their lives is growing. But by the time those students are at the level you are at right now, you're likely to be gone, either out of the industry or in a more permanent sense.

High school and college students will be stage leveling at LORT levels in 10  or 15 years or less, and hopefully (g*d willing) I will still be working, and hopefully not dead - I mean, I am "seasoned" and all . . . but not quite that seasoned.

I jest.

No, obviously, since I have been posting around here for almost the full 11 years, I do firmly believe in sharing with the community - theater is still a apprentice / journeyman based career model.  I do believe in Dallas10086, that perhaps there are things I should pull back in sharing, but maybe, just in the very nature of the job, there are things that are impossible to share or impossible to teach about this job. 

hose who believe that sharing their trade secrets will lead to their undoing (or unemployment) are probably insecure to begin with.

  Maybe / Maybe not - I think where you get to the very high end of this job - the competition for high profile jobs is extreme - especially when are talking about Broadway and above jobs - jobs that are in the $3,000 to $5,000 a week range.  Has very little to do with insecurity about oneself, and more to do with the insecurity about the business as a whole.

My answer is simply, "it's the right thing to do."

That said, I don't participate as much in the community as I might because I'm not an AEA stage manager. In general the prevailing attitude is that if you aren't AEA, then you aren't a professional.

Yes, I firmly believe it's the right thing to do, I just am not sure WHY it's the right thing to do. (And by the way - not being AEA doe not make you a non-professional stage manager.  Being AEA - just means you happen to have a stiff piece of a paper in your wallet . . . I mean, it means a lot more then that, but there are a LOT of professional Stage Managers this day who are not AEA)

And to be honest, our leader Kay, actually sums it up best why I feel most comfortable sharing in a competitive work place, even like the NYC scene

To those who are worried about lessening their own impact, I challenge   you - take it further. Learn what's here and then push it in your head   to the next level. Make it your own, make yours better than ours. If you choose to come back and share what you've   learned with the rest of the class, great, you've just raised stage   management to the next level as an industry. If   not, chances are that someone else will stumble on the same idea - maybe not as quickly as you, but they will think of it. They'll share it, they'll get the credit for it, and they'll build their rep instead. Personally, I think an SM with the confidence to share what they've learned with the world - and to do so with enthusiasm and vigor - is an SM who can handle anything that comes their way with aplomb.

If I only had Kay in my pocket in the bar . . . I mean, it would have had to have been a big pocket . . .


EDIT: Not THAT big! Although I do see a potential windfall in the ACME (tm) Pocket Stage Manager. -PSMK

[Maribeth]

The reason I am here and have been since college is a simple reason: No one taught me how to do this.

Someone did teach me how to do this.

Not just one person, really- most of what I have learned about stage management has come directly from working with or talking to other stage managers. I did an apprenticeship, assisting one SM for the season- most of the way that I stage manage is because of what she taught me. She gave me the benefit of her knowledge and experience without hesitation, and I want to do the same for someone else.

I also agree with what's been said about competition already on this topic- I have to feel confident enough in myself that I have the tools and ability to do this job, and I can't worry about anyone else. There are several other stage managers on this site that work at about the same level that I do, and in the same geographical area, and who (I'm sure) compete with me for jobs. I am betting that when I post on the forum, those are not the people who are using my advice. (If they are, great.) But I'm betting that most of the people are younger and less experienced than I am, and I think the only thing that is going to make us competitors is experience.

I think that a great stage manager is the result of among other things, their ability to work with people, time management, technical ability, and mostly, their experience. Most stage managers at the same level as you are probably good at the first three. The only thing separating you from them is your experience, and how you use that experience to inform your work. (You said something similar to me once, Matthew). If I have experience in opera, is telling someone else about that experience going to be the same as them working on an opera? No- it may help them in that experience, and frankly I'm ok with that. It may raise the industry standard - and I'm ok with that too.


I do understand where your friend is coming from- it's a hard field to make a living in, in the first place. And if they don't want to share what they know, I don't blame them. I also think that to be really active in this forum can take up a lot of time- and not everyone wants to go home at the end of the day and think about stage management some more. Having a "real life" for some people means putting away the job completely when not at work.

[SMrose]

Knowledge is powerful if shared.  That's my mantra (one of them) as a stage manager.  Good and really great stage managers need not worry about competition---they will be hired for shows.  After years of working in professional theatre and now teaching in college and working with community theatres, I don't want to see any potential stage managers say, " I really didn't like stage managing this show.  I had no idea what I was doing and it was a horrible experience.  I'm not doing this again."  I do enjoy stage managing and if I can make it easier (or at least share some knowledge) and have that stage manager say, "I had a good time doing this.  Where do I sign up for the next show?",  that's someone who will help make the production better. And, it's someone I don't have to go back to step one with next time we work a show together.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but are there not many standards that stage manager's use? Blocking notation, warns and stand-bys, writing your cues legibly, prearing checklists and prop/costume plots/scene shift plots and so on.  I'm not giving away any trade secrets that haven't been invented already.  In fact, many of my tools and techniques were handed down to me by my mentor.
I also enjoy observing another experienced stage manager work, as there's always something new to learn.  And sometimes I learn something from the novice stage manager!
PS-Good topic Matthew.

[maximillionx]

Great topic Matthew!

When I read this post, my mind immediately went to open source sharing.  I hate to quote wikipedia, but I think they explain it in words far better than I ever could:
Open source sharing enables "a self-enhancing diversity of production models, communication paths, and interactive communities....The open source model includes the concept of concurrent yet different agendas and differing approaches in production, in contrast with more centralized models of development...A main principle and practice of open source software development is peer production by bartering and collaboration, with the end-product, source-material, "blueprints", and documentation available at no cost to the public."  (from their article - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source - on open source sharing)

I understand your friend's thought process though Matthew, and I'm sure individuals on this site have withheld information from others at some point in their career to get an edge.  It's survival.  Whatever gives you that extra boost that someone else might not have. However, sharing is for the common good, not necessarily the individual.  I could see myself focusing more on my own life and career rather than on the education of others.  It's not selfish by any means.  I think as I age though, I gain a fondness for education and teaching.  I definitely am not at a level I would feel comfortable molding the minds of others, but I would love to be like my college mentor one day.

I started reading this site in 2008, right at the time I started to hit my stride as a stage manager.  What this site has given me more than anything else is the mindset of a professional.  It allowed me to be fair and reasonable in my approach to difficult situations, in contrast to years prior where I might not have thought things out at stringently.

[Rebbe]

Yes, I firmly believe it's the right thing to do, I just am not sure WHY it's the right thing to do.

It’s the right thing to do because theater is a different kind of career.  It isn’t selling insurance.  It isn’t a day job.  It’s a lifestyle as much as a job, and there are things about it that “civilians” just don’t understand.  We are collaborators and supporters, we are a helping profession, and SMNetwork is an extension of that spirit.

I am here as a reasonably seasoned SM because I think there is always more to learn, always room for improvement, and that I can get something from the process of thinking about why I do what I do when I reply to a question.  Having the different perspectives of SMs in schools, community theater, non-AEA, as well as my union siblings in other areas, is provides an invaluable opportunity for growth. 

Being here is also good karma.  I had, and still have, some amazing mentors and peers who have shared with me, and therefore I feel it is only right to share with others in return.  My unique style and personality are not accessible online, and my resume still speaks for itself, so sharing tips and thoughts with others doesn’t translate to fewer job prospects for me.

Finally, I am here because I care about the profile of our profession as a whole, even at a point in my life where I see myself moving into another career soon.  I think having more good SMs out there is better for all SMs everywhere.  Lousy SMs reflect badly on us all. 

[hbelden]

Matthew comes up with all the most thought-provoking topics. 

As I read the original topic, I felt a huge amount of self-righteousness.  Of course you share what you know!  Then, as I read all the fascinating comments I felt that everyone said what I thought so much better than I could have said it, and reading the overwhelming response I felt less defensive.  Then I began thinking about in what way I agree with Matthew's friend, and I'll lay that out last.

First, I want to say that theatre is more than a job for me.  If I just wanted a way to make a living, I'd have skipped grad school and stayed at my day job, and may have been making six figures by now.  Instead, I stayed with theatre because I've loved it my whole life.  And the most important reason I became a stage manager instead of being an actor was that as SM, I have a more influential hand in the quality of every show I work on than in any other position.  Even if I were to be a director, I'd be hamstrung by bad stage managers or poor designs, etc.  As SM, I can honestly say that I've worked to make every show I'm on better than it would be without me there.  So there are two derivative reasons for my participation on smnetwork.org: the first is that the best way of learning is by teaching others; the second is that through smnetwork, if my advice helps someone else, then I've done my part in making theatre better across the country.  The better theatre is, the more vitally it serves the interests of our communities, in short the more demand there is for theatre, the more jobs there will be -- for everyone.

Before I say where I agree with Matthew's friend, I first have to say that I've been extremely fortunate in my career.  Since my first full year with my AEA card, when I worked 27 weeks, I've worked closer to 50 weeks a year.  If I was in the same situation many actors are, taking very low-paying roles in order to scrape together 20 weeks a year to keep my health insurance, it's possible that my point of view would be different than I stated above.  I don't think so, but it's possible, and I'm not one to pass judgement on how other people run their business.

I want to explain where I draw the line, though.  I never withhold any information about how I stage manage, for all the reasons everyone else has said, and from what I said above.  However, at the root, I don't think that you get jobs because of how you stage manage.  I think finding a job is a very different process from actually doing the job.

I think back to how I found my current job; I studied the websites of theatres that had larger contracts than the ones I had been working at, and noticed that a new artistic director was coming in to one of them.  I made up my mind that, as a career strategy, I would be the first stage manager he worked with in this region.  So I got an interview with the production manager at the time, who offered a very low-paying reading that was scheduled for just after the Director arrived in town; sort of a transition period thing.  I jumped at the chance and scheduled my other jobs around that week.  The week went well, and at the end of it, they offered me the mainstage show that was the new AD's first.  That was the start of a very fruitful and long-standing relationship that continues to this day, six years later. 

Would I have offered advice about running staged readings at the time, or beforehand? Absolutely.  Would I have told other SMs why I was so interested in pursuing a low-paying reading, turning down other jobs in order to secure it?  Although it never came up, honestly, I don't think I would have.  And certainly not with someone as or more qualified than I to do the reading.  I was focused on growing my career, thinking several jobs ahead, and feeling competitive in that respect.  I don't think there's anything wrong with that, because getting the job is completely separate from doing the job.

I'd love to hear discussion about that - am I right or wrong?

[BLee]

Would I have offered advice about running staged readings at the time, or beforehand? Absolutely.  Would I have told other SMs why I was so interested in pursuing a low-paying reading, turning down other jobs in order to secure it?  Although it never came up, honestly, I don't think I would have.  And certainly not with someone as or more qualified than I to do the reading.  I was focused on growing my career, thinking several jobs ahead, and feeling competitive in that respect.  I don't think there's anything wrong with that, because getting the job is completely separate from doing the job.

There is nothing wrong with keeping your job strategies to yourself. Theatre is a networkers business. We all know how much this is a who-you-know and who-can-you-meet kind of job. Yes, you have to be good at your job to get the references you need, but the quality of your work will only keep you working, not get you work.

As was said above, we are collaborators. Sharing a form you use or how you organize your prompt book is not going to lose you a job and you are improving the business by making more of a demand for our product. If we don't help each other prove that we are completely necessary to the theatrical process, we risk companies using fewer of us on a production, creating even more demand for fewer jobs. If one stage manager looks bad we risk giving others in our industry a poor idea of what we can do to improve the creative process.

Trust me, we all have our business strategies and only an educator gives out their best secrets. We aren't here to steal each others jobs, we are here to use our collective knowledge to improve our position as a group. Collectively we are more powerful than going it alone.

[On_Headset]

I also imagine that, for those of you who are more open about your real names, locations, activities, and so on, having that profile on SMNet can be a useful networking tool unto itself. (And perhaps doubly useful if you're looking at teaching opportunities: frame it as mentorship, take the credit you deserve.)

[Bwoodbury]

The thing is, there is a lot of stuff I DO keep to myself. I'm particularly reluctant to share word docs of my paperwork to be edited, for example. But I think that's valid. I'm happy to send a PDF to someone I'm pretty confident will use it as a jumping off point and not as the actual form, though.

My feeling on the subject is that from what I can tell so far, no two stage managers stage manage exactly alike and while there are SMs I have pretty similar styles too, a lot of that was developed independently from trial and error. I have no problem with people using some of my tactics because they are probably just as likely to come up with them eventually on their own. And having those tactics in their back pockets isn't going to allow them to replicate my style of stage management.

Paperwork on the other hand, is much easier to replicate directly. I think that's why I'm pickier about spreading that around.