Author Topic: Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark  (Read 30393 times)

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jNehlich

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Re: Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark
« Reply #45 on: Dec 23, 2010, 12:06 pm »
hopefully this PR company will be with them for the entire ride and driven away by the craziness....since this is not the first they've been with.

And yes bad press is press and is getting people talking about live theatre. It's just a pity people aren't talking about good live theatre in a positive way.
-JN

nick_tochelli

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Re: Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark
« Reply #46 on: Dec 23, 2010, 12:11 pm »
I may be an irrepresable optimist, but I'd like to think this whole thing can still turn out well for the whole field!

My fear would be if the production somehow manages to turn this whole ordeal into a viable success, what does it do to the bar of modern musical theater? It may set it so high that the next show has to be bigger and bigger still and instead of a few broken ribs, and a concussion we have to read about someone dying for their art.

jNehlich

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Re: Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark
« Reply #47 on: Dec 23, 2010, 12:24 pm »
"My fear would be if the production somehow manages to turn this whole ordeal into a viable success, what does it do to the bar of modern musical theater? It may set it so high that the next show has to be bigger and bigger still and instead of a few broken ribs, and a concussion we have to read about someone dying for their art."


and/or it drives up the ticket price so only the lucky few can afford to see it, or it only allows for less than a handful of new shows a season, if that.
-JN

missliz

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Re: Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark
« Reply #48 on: Dec 23, 2010, 12:35 pm »
Kay's probably right about the PR folks.  "Any press is good press."  Right?
In that vein, one thing the "Spider-Man Debacle" (as it's been dubbed at my theatre) has done is get your average Joe talking about live theatre.  At least live theatre is popping up on the publics' collective radars, again.
I may be an irrepresable optimist, but I'd like to think this whole thing can still turn out well for the whole field!

I will say, I was at a high school reunion cocktail party last night (yikes!) and every person, after finding out what I do, wanted to know my opinion on Spiderman. I think all of this HAS raised more awareness for what goes on behind the scenes to mount a show.
I personally would like to bring a tortoise onto the stage, turn it into a racehorse, then into a hat, a song, a dragon and a fountain of water. One can dare anything in the theatre and it is the place where one dares the least. -Ionesco

RuthNY

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Re: Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark
« Reply #49 on: Dec 23, 2010, 12:56 pm »
Beyond ‘Spider-Man’: 10 Onstage Mishaps

From the Wall Street Journal

http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2010/12/22/beyond-spider-man-ten-onstage-mishaps/?mod=wsj
"Be fair with others, but then keep after them until they're fair with you."
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MatthewShiner

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Re: Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark
« Reply #50 on: Dec 23, 2010, 02:29 pm »
I don't think this is going to raise the bar for musicals beyond belief, in that these things come in cycles - remember the mega musical growing and growing, and then RENT changed the playing field.  Ultimately, since the gods came down in the first Greek Dramas, spectacle has been part of the theater, like it or not.  But, the audience won't leave humming a flying effect, and although the wow of spectacle can carry a lot (I have seen a lot of Cirque shows), without a heart and soul, it often feels very empty.

BUT, there is a lot  here that gets many, many people mad - angry, passionate.  (It took about 10 minutes to calm down my cast yesterday when this topic came up.)

There are a lot of things to take into consideration, and I don't know anything about Spider Man, other then the press releases I read like you, and I don't put much stock in them.  And I don't want to assume anything about the show.

Theater is a dangerous thing - next to Coal Minding and Professional sports, theatre can be the most dangerous occupation.

Actors are the low man on the totem pole - with an occupation reaching 95% unemployment for actors. These higher pays jobs (which are not really that high when you take NYC cost of living in to equation and the time worked versus time not worked, aren't really that high) are in great demand, and actors are fighting over these roles.

Yes, Safety is always given lip-service, but at the end of the day, there is pressure to get the show running.  Very quickly, the most powerful person in the room quickly becomes the one writing the checks.  Shows canceled on Broadway can be $100,000 to $350,000 in loss revenue in ticket sales alone.  Do you not think that is taken into consideration about reworking the show?

Actors may quickly find them self in a position where they feel they can't speak up - either because of cast pressure, pressure form the director, lack of concern by those in the room.

The Actor is face with very costly solutions:

Quit.  Not only does he have to give x-amount of notice, he would have to pay to buy out his contract.

Speak up - and run the risk of being labeled “difficult” by a hot director and large production staff and cast . . . ultimately hurting his chance to be cast in the future.

Speak up OUTSIDE of the rehearsal - Union, Labor Department, Police - also run the risk of be blacklisted, and even worse, causing the show to close and put people out of work.  Also, may get blacklisted from future casting. 
(And please don’t give me a lesson on why blacklisting is bad and illegal, a difficult actor gets label as such in this business, no matter how good they are?)

And if this applies to actors, I am pretty sure it applies to stage managers as well.  We are looking to control our careers, feel safe, work for the next job just as much as actors.

Commercial Shows are about making money, at times treating actors as a design element, and a replaceable component to a very big machine.  Some directors in the height of the mega-musical, talked about ways of making a show “Actor Proof” so any actor can slide in and out, and take away the reliance on stars.  There are shows on Broadway that are infamous for eating up actors, due to the fact the show is difficult to perform, or has design elements that are tear the body apart in the long term.  (Remember, no one does long R&D on some of these design elements and effects).  Often Directors and Producers  of these Commercial Shows get labeled with being heartless to the actor’s predicament.  Want a job?  Take a job in this show?  Get hurt?  We can find another actor quickly to replace you.  We can find ten.

Many young actors who are pouring into this city, will take a job, and not have the discipline to to warm up properly and take care of themselves.  They will rehearse a show, and not think “Can I do this 8 shows a week, 52 weeks a year?”, and are more concerned with pleasing the director, impressing their fellow actors, and keeping their career going - often short term goals, not taking in the fact their career should last 40 or 50 years.

Again, I am not saying there is ANY of this going on Spider Man.  But this is all going on in theatre - maybe not all on the same show, but it is happening.

I firmly believe that every actor has the right to go into work and go home without getting hurt.  Yes, mistakes are made - human error - but it has to be the the exception not the expected out come.  But sadly, the world of theatre is not a perfect and often actors are put in harms way in the in the name of entertainment.

So, this show is causing a lot of conversations to be had, and a lot of emotions are coming out here - expect to see more conversations, more debate, more screaming, more tears happening about this topic.

What can, we a stage managers do?  I don’t have a easy answer.  I think creating a positive, upbeat and safe environment in rehearsal and tech where open and frank conversations is a good step.  Creating a dialogue with the director, where they trust on opinion on safety and technology.  Demand an atmosphere of safety being the ultimate goal of the show, with the goal that the show can be duplicated 8 times a week, 52 weeks a year, but multiple actors and crew members (Just because one actor feels it safe, you have to make sure other actors down the line will feel just as secure.) 

And, I am sure all of this is being done on Spider Man, it’s just that the reality is the are not producing the most expensive musical, they are producing an underfunded cirque-like spectacle - they are some very specific limitations they are producing under.  I wish they had more time, I wish they had more money, I wish they had more staff, and, to be honest, I wish they have continued success with their work - in safe and sane environment.  Like it or hate it, this musical is keeping a lot of people employed.
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Anything posted here as in my own personal opinion, and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of my employer - whomever they be at a given moment in time.

loebtmc

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Re: Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark
« Reply #51 on: Dec 23, 2010, 03:25 pm »
very cogent and very good Matthew, thanks

It's hard to be the squeaky wheel, I know from bitter experience. Not counting a director who accused me publicly of thinking my job was to protect the actors. Really.

Actors will often do whatever it takes to work, and sometimes put themselves (and others) in danger rather than risk being "that person" - I've said no to a director who wanted an actor who had never, ever handled a gun to use the antique-style prop gun that had just been dropped off at the rehearsal space, and forced full gun protocol before allowing its use. The actor and director get caught up in the moment and we have to be the calm cool voice of reason that says HOLD and makes sure safety is not bypassed or rushed.

All we can do is be there, be trusted as an ear and have them know we have their backs, and for us to be willing to say no when necessary.

ReyYaySM

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Re: Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark
« Reply #52 on: Jan 05, 2011, 11:48 pm »
For a bit of a laugh on this serious topic, check out the recent Onion article: Nuclear Bomb Detonates During Rehearsal for SpiderMan

SMLois

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Re: Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark
« Reply #53 on: Jan 06, 2011, 02:37 am »
I read a really interesting review of Spiderman: Turn of the Dark today.  You can find it here: http://parabasis.typepad.com/blog/2011/01/spider-man-turn-off-the-dark.html

If we ignore the massive safety issues for a minute, it appears that the story is just as much of a mess.  And I don't care how great your spectacle is if the story doesn't work.

MatthewShiner

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Re: Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark
« Reply #54 on: Jan 06, 2011, 03:57 am »
I would like to remind everyone the show is still in previews . . . . and has not opened yet and will not open yet for another month.

Hopefully the can sort things out.

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Anything posted here as in my own personal opinion, and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of my employer - whomever they be at a given moment in time.

Tempest

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Re: Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark
« Reply #55 on: Jan 06, 2011, 01:48 pm »
For a bit of a laugh on this serious topic, check out the recent Onion article: Nuclear Bomb Detonates During Rehearsal for SpiderMan

The last sentence of that "article" is my favorite. 

"Despite the setback, Cohl told reporters that he is more optimistic than ever about the production, saying that director Julie Taymor and composers Bono and the Edge were disintegrated in the explosion."

Honestly, I'm surprised The Onion hasn't bashed on the show more than it has.
Jessica: "Of course I have a metric size 4 dinglehopper in my kit!  Who do you think I am?"

MatthewShiner

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Re: Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark
« Reply #56 on: Jan 06, 2011, 03:49 pm »
Why does this show need to be bashed ????

It has some work it needs to be done, sure?  Is it ever going to be great theatre?  Maybe not - is Mama Mia?  Is Rock of Ages?  Is WIcked?  Is Ave Q?  Is Rain?  There are always places for varying forms of entertainment on Broadway? 

Regarding the injuries . . . 4 injuries, yes, are bad . . . but . . . for some of us that have worked on large, complicated projects, let's raise our hands if we have had four or more injuries on a production?

They are employing a lot of people . . . I send them nothing but positive vibes, and hope the figure it out, and i hope it runs for YEARS!

« Last Edit: Jan 06, 2011, 04:08 pm by MatthewShiner »
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Tempest

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Re: Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark
« Reply #57 on: Jan 07, 2011, 12:20 pm »
It doesn't need to be bashed.  But that is what The Onion does, and if anything is in the news and public discussion a lot, be it politics, literature (Twilight, anyone?), entertainment, whatever, they tend to go at it more than once. 
That was all my comment meant.
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jNehlich

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Re: Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark
« Reply #58 on: Jan 07, 2011, 04:21 pm »
Agreed with Tempest.

It's the Onion for god's sakes. You can't blame it for mocking Spiderman, because it mocks everything.

Sometimes it's nice to have a little humorous entertainment. If the article really offends someone on the show (or anyone for that matter) then they should get in a different business. ....because it's all about opinion anyway..
-JN

Scott

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Re: Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark
« Reply #59 on: Jan 08, 2011, 10:42 am »
Why does this show need to be bashed ????

It has some work it needs to be done, sure?  Is it ever going to be great theatre?  Maybe not - is Mama Mia?  Is Rock of Ages?  Is WIcked?  Is Ave Q?  Is Rain?  There are always places for varying forms of entertainment on Broadway? 

Regarding the injuries . . . 4 injuries, yes, are bad . . . but . . . for some of us that have worked on large, complicated projects, let's raise our hands if we have had four or more injuries on a production?

They are employing a lot of people . . . I send them nothing but positive vibes, and hope the figure it out, and i hope it runs for YEARS!

Well, I might agree with the generally level-headed Mr. Shiner,  except for the two following reasons:

(major reason) : 4 injuries in previews?  That's a lot.  And it is typical of this director.  My "sauces" in general management tell me that "Lion King" has the highest rate of injuries of any show.  Ever.  And that includes "Starlight Express".  Why is this?  Because this director does not appear to really care about actors.  They are nothing but puppets to her.

(minor reason) : As someone who is a fan of comic books, at least casually familiar with the Marvel universe, and trained as a director/dramaturg, there is nothing I have heard about this show that appears dramaturgically sound.  Many of us felt that this thing was plagued by bad decisions from the start: really the wrong choice of director and composer.  (Honestly, a composer who is only occasionally available to attend rehearsals and previews?   Seriously, that is not how you build a new musical  And a female puppet master from a privileged background in Massachusetts to stage the story of a poor Queens boy going through extraordinary puberty?  Is that really the best choice?).  And the thing I can't get over -- and exactly the sort of thing that justifies initial apprehension of "Spiderman" fans:  introducing a major character into this mythos that has no relation to the resonance of the material. Seriously Ms. Taymor -- a giant female spider as a major villain?  Because you "dreamt" about it?  WTF?  If Stan Lee didn't dream it, I'm not interested.  What's next: a musical about Batman wherein Bruce Wayne battles a giant bat?  A musical about Superman wherein Clark Kent battles a giant super-nova?

No, not every musical has to be a great theatre.  But a musical should at least be true to the  appropriate level of pop-art art.