Being friends with other stage managers

[MatthewShiner]

So, whats you get outside of school, there are a lot of reasons one doesn't hang out with other stage managers . . .

early in your career you will often be a team of one.
your hours will prohibit you from having much of social life in general.
you may be geographically separated from the friends you made with other stage managers.

but, I was wondering for those who have been able to maintain friendships with other stage managers, how do you deal with?  with the competition, the jealousy, the career envy, etc.

Just interested if people have some insight into that.

[BayAreaSM]

Wow - this is something I have thought a lot about, but never really talked (or typed) about out loud.

I was able to be friends (and even roommates) with other SM's in college, because our professors pigeon-holed us into different arenas, so we were never directly in competition for shows. I was always stuck with either the One-Acts series or straight plays, while my roommate Libby got the musicals and my friend Jenaiah got dance. (Funny how I ended up SM'ing ballet and Jenaiah is in Shakespeare.) We still keep in touch, mostly through facebook, and once again, there is no competition because we all live in different states.

When I started working in professional theater, I was eager to make friends with as many SM's as possible, due to making strong contacts and learning as much as I could about their personal SM styles. I've never felt in direct competition with another SM friend because 1) I'm generally happy where I am and have a season-long gig, and 2) These friends have helped toss me work in my off-time. I actually landed my resident SM gig 7 years ago because a friend SM recommended me to a PSM that needed an ASM. And here I am! The PSM has moved on and I've moved up.

I've made a point to always provide work or pass along work to other SM's in my area, whether they are union or non, depending on the job. I always appreciate it when my fellow SM's give my name for a job when they aren't available for it themselves. I think this constant "passing the job along" keeps the jealousy down and keeps friendships healthy. I suppose I would feel more competitive with other SM's if I were trying harder to get summer shows. But I haven't, so it makes me rather neutral on the subject.

As far as career envy goes - sometimes I wish I could get back into certain theaters and when I have friends working in those theaters, I do get a bit envious. Though, 98% of the time, I wouldn't be able to work in those theaters due to my own schedule conflicts - so I really have nothing to be envious about. I'm happy that my fellow SM's have work, and that I have work, and that we're always looking out for each other. Whether it's referring another for a job, giving someone a job, or banding together to work on a project (like a Workshop festival).

And I'm thankful for the SM's I've met (electronically) on here, that have helped me with my issues and concerns, and that have offered excellent advice. I've only been in the real world for 8 years, so I still have a lot to learn and experience. If it weren't for SM friends, I think I might feel a bit lost.

[MatthewShiner]

I should also mentioned I was once married to stage manager as well - and we have the benefit of job sharing right around the time we were about to have a baby, and the year following . . . .but Marriage to another SM is a whole other thread . . .

[dallas10086]

Marriage to another person in the arts...someone needs to start that thread because I wonder what I missed by purposefully marrying someone with absolutely no interest in the arts 

I've been in this city for nearly 10 years and I've just recently met a fellow stage manager. We're always working at other venues in different parts of town during the same hours. The only reason I met her was because I saw a show during some down-time. We knew each other by name and reputation (she stage managed the last production in the theatre I was currently working in and vice versa) but never met until then. I don't think I've met the other stage managers here, but I know them all by name and what shows they've worked.

[NomieRae]

I have several SM friends, people I went to school with, people I've worked with and people I've met through festivals, friends, relationships, etcetera.  I think it can be an important networking tool as far as passing along work, discussing companies, and having a pool of people to pick from when you are lucky enough to pick your ASMs on a show.  Also no SM is and island and we can all learn things from one another from paperwork to crisis management, etc.

Very early on I tried to shy away from becoming too friendly with my co-workers on shows and remain completely professional 100% of the time, but man that got old fast and I have learned through trial and error how to feel people out as far as if we will be friends, and some of my closest friends are producers and SMs I've worked with over the years.

There is a bit of career jealousy that arises from time to time, but I step back and look at the reasons behind why they got the better job.  Sometimes it's their personal contacts. Sometimes it's their MFA versus my BFA. Sometimes it's just luck. It all keeps me focused on what helps people land jobs and what I need to work on to stay competitive.

[BeckyGG]

Very interesting topic!

As a stage manager in NYC, I do find myself having quite a few SM friends.  In face, some of my closest friends are stage managers. 

Some of my SM friends I'm closer to and we share jobs when one can't take them, or celebrate over drinks when someone gets a fantastic job.  These are my closer stage manager friends.  Very rarely do I get jealous of these friends ... however, when I find that happening I take time to step back and take stock and be genuinely happy for them.  Some of my stage manager friends are in my age range, but I do find myself having many stage manager friends that are much more seasoned than I am, which I find fantastic for so many reasons.

Some other stage manager "friends" in my circle I do find myself not making the time for, or getting jealous when they get a good job that I wanted.  These are really more acquaintances, I suppose.  I try to realize why they may have gotten the call when I didn't.  It doesn't always make me feel better, and reminds me to tread lightly.

What I've found interesting, in the past 2 years, is that many of the stage managers I'm friends with in my age range (late 20's - early 30's) are starting to leave the industry ... or at least this specific field.  I have friends working in other industries, friends going to grad school in the arts, etc.  These friends I find myself seeing less and less of as they transition back into more "normal" lifestyles than the theater.

[Rebbe]

What I've found interesting, in the past 2 years, is that many of the stage managers I'm friends with in my age range (late 20's - early 30's) are starting to leave the industry ... or at least this specific field.  I have friends working in other industries, friends going to grad school in the arts, etc.  These friends I find myself seeing less and less of as they transition back into more "normal" lifestyles than the theater.

That’s funny, because several  of my SM friends at this point are actually former SMs,  or those who choose to SM only occasionally, or not in theater.  They completely  understand the theater world, but since they’re no longer up to their neck in it themselves, they’ve often offered me useful insights and perspective.   That also takes competition off the table with them, but I’m not really a competitive person to begin with.  I feel satisfied by doing my best work, not by doing work that is the best as compared to someone else’s career.  I like being part of a team in theater, and joke with the other stage mangers I’m close to that we are “Team SM,” so I’m happy when they succeed.  I’m also a big believer in career karma, that if you help someone get a job by putting their name on the table or forwarding a post, it will come back around to help you in the future.  I feel like it’s worked out that way for me a number of times.   I’m more likely to have a touch of career envy for SMs I don’t know personally, or I know them but don’t think they are good stage managers.  Then it sucks to find out they got a job I wanted and seemed equally qualified for.

[maximillionx]

I really don't have many stage manager friends anymore i Did in college however.  The tough part was not working together, since we all had similar styles and were being taught in the same manner, it was when someone was openly favored in front of another SM.  Then it was awkward. Example: I had a former employee today say I was the best SM they had worked with, within earshot of their current SM. I like a little thanks like everyone else, but I felt bad it had to be at their expense!
Many of my close theatre friends are multifaceted people, working as actors, SMs, AD's, crew, etc...so if SMing comes up, we can talk openly about it without worrying if someone is going to have their feelings hurt, since the conversation is likely to change quick anyway. I also have a lot of friends outside theatre.

[kateaclysm]

I have several Stage Manager friends around the country, some I see a lot, others I don't.  I always try to pass on jobs and network.  I have noticed lately a few people mentioning that it is odd that I will pass on good jobs to other people.  I just got my friend a PA gig on a National Tour, and several coworkers asked why I wouldn't just take it for myself. Answer: I don't like the show they're doing, but they do. 

Also, a few SMs who I have known for a long time seem to have some weird career envy.  They will mention that they are extremely competitive with this person or that, or make off handed remarks about how they can't believe how well I'm doing.  But these aren't close friends.  Perhaps it's that I'm in that late twenties group where some are starting to get tired of the life style etc...

[missliz]

I have a few friends who are stage managers, but the majority of them are whatever-slash-stage-managers so we usually don't have much job overlap. They're also nonunion, so that keeps us from the same jobs as well. The other SMs I am friends with who are union aren't close friends, but it's not due to any job competition. In fact, I've found it good to have their names/emails/numbers to send jobs to them if I can't take them, and I've been lucky enough that they've done the same for me.

I did go a "stage manager party" once to try to meet more SMs and I didn't like the vibe...but I was also recovering from the flu at the time, so I'd be willing to give it a go again.

[MatthewShiner]

I did go a "stage manager party" once to try to meet more SMs and I didn't like the vibe...but I was also recovering from the flu at the time, so I'd be willing to give it a go again.

There is often a very cold, vicious, -deleted- attitude when there is a whole flock of us together.  I find meeting one on one with another Stage Manager is often better.  But even then, there is a lot of name dropping, project hyping, breast beating going on.

It's just interesting to note - as I now live in a city with a HELL OF A LOT of stage managers.

(Edit for language ~Tempest)

[Rebbe]

There is often a very cold, vicious, -deleted- attitude when there is a whole flock of us together.  I find meeting one on one with another Stage Manager is often better.  But even then, there is a lot of name dropping, project hyping, breast beating going on.

It's just interesting to note - as I now live in a city with a HELL OF A LOT of stage managers.

So are you saying that's your NYC experience, or did you really find that to be the case in DC and other regions you've worked in as well?  I have not encountered that attitude in the SM events I've gone to, and certianly not in the SMs I'd describe as friends.  Sometimes the student/most novice SMs try a little to hard to get an "in" with SMs at bigger theater, but I wouldn't describe the atmosphere as -deleted-.  Hopefully you'll find some SMs to hang out with who are more down to earth!  I feel like SMs are great collaborators, so theoretically it would be easy for us to get along with each other.  But maybe that changes when you're among SMs whose main goal is to make it to "the top?"

(Edited for langauge ~Tempest)

[MatthewShiner]

No, I have found this attitude across the board in very different locations . . . but I have to admit, in the cases I am thinking about right know as I type were very ALPHA MALE situations (and one case ALPHA GAY MALE situation).  Yes, in DC (but never with you Rebbe :-) ), yes in NYC, yes in the LA and the Bay Area . . . but again, sort of stripping it down, it was less one on one, and more large groups - and never in a work situation.  Interesting, huh?  But could just be my experience - I bring out the worse in groups of stage managers?

[BayAreaSM]

I've only had 2 experiences with a group of Stage Managers - oddly they were meetups for the same group - so somehow the vibe changed between meetings.

Back in 2003, my PSM at the time took me to a "Bay Area Stage Managers" drinks night. It was in SF in a restaurant/bar. Everyone was so nice, we sent around a contact sheet, posed for a photo and the leader of the group emailed the contact sheet and photo to everyone afterward. Unfortunately, she moved out of state and another SM took over as the organizer. We had one other meeting after that first one, and it was at the new organizer's house. It was so snarky and uncomfortable that I forced my husband to call me and say that he needed me at home immediately, so I could leave. We haven't had another organized meetup since.

Kind of sad.

[Beatr79]

I think there is a BIG difference between attending any formal or informal SM drink night and going out for drinks with actual friends who happen to be stage managers.   The SM drink nights I have attended smack of self-satisfaction: the older, more experienced (and better-paid, better-connected) stage managers lapping up the adoration of the younger SMs, who are dying to make a good, informal contact.   

On the other hand, I have several dear dear friends (and several more good acquaintances) who are stage managers.  When we go out for drinks, we share war stories and compare notes for fun.  To blow off steam.  To get some perspective.  But not to show off.  Not to get a job.   

The question of competition among my friends is very real - we met at work and have an over-lapping network of contacts who alternately recommend one or another (or several) of us for work.  I have witnessed a "friendship" implode because friend A was hired for a position friend B applied for.  I personally had a person stop talking to me when I was hired in a position she didn't think I belonged in.  It has taken a while for me to accept this reality, but that person?  Not actually my friend.

For friendships to survive in this tiny world, it requires a lot of tact and graciousness, on both ends.  Excitement, disappointment, even jealousy?  Those are all human responses.  Its just a matter of how and when you express them that reveals who a true friend might be.