Author Topic: "I quit!"  (Read 8987 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

BARussell

  • SM Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 193
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Current Gig: Assistant to the Producers at Goodspeed Musicals
  • Experience: Professional
Re: "I quit!"
« Reply #15 on: Feb 22, 2013, 04:59 pm »
  But, let's remember, we are free lance employees, so much sure you are quitting for the right reasons - you don't want to be know as a stage manager who drops a show on every whim.

So true and I think that fear is what stops most people from ever quitting.

I know I only had one experience where I had reached "the point". Of course I didn't quit and I regret it.
« Last Edit: Feb 22, 2013, 05:03 pm by BARussell »
"We don't negotiate with weirdos!"

MatthewShiner

  • Forum Moderators
  • *****
  • Posts: 2478
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Affiliations: AEA, SMA
  • Current Gig: Freelance Stage Manager; Faculty for UMKC
  • Experience: Professional
Re: "I quit!"
« Reply #16 on: Feb 22, 2013, 08:32 pm »
In this business, trust me, if you quit for the right reasons, the only people that should against you is the producer you left - and you probably don't want to work for them again anyways.

Although we are taught over and over it's a small world, but I know stage managers that have been fired multiple times from shows, and yet they still get work, all the way up to Broadway . . .

Again, if you are good, you should be able to find the work.

To get back on my soapbox a bit about the state of our industry - the market is flooded with stage managers (not particularly good stage managers, just a lot of them).  This leads to the devaluation of our job (come do my show for the resume credit, come do this show for 300.00 for all eight weeks of the run, come do this show for a  metro card and a case of beer) - along with some dreadful working conditions - ask any young or not-so-young New Yorl stage manager about their shared space rehearsal or performance venue, where they are expected to do 12 other things other then stage management, often without an assistant, and do it all for less the unemployment. 

There are things we can do - one, we can stop the high output of stage managers from our educational system (or at least hope the educational system raises the bar on the students they are putting out).  Two, we can stop accepting these no-pay or low-pay jobs.  Three, we can stop taking jobs with these horrific working conditions.  Four, we can have the guts to quit jobs that become unbearable or abusive.  (I know that many producers will just turn around and pluck someone else from the over populated work force to replace us . . . but if people just refused to work under these conditions, hopefully in the long run the working environments will change). 

Off of soap box.
« Last Edit: Feb 22, 2013, 08:43 pm by MatthewShiner »
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Anything posted here as in my own personal opinion, and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of my employer - whomever they be at a given moment in time.

BARussell

  • SM Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 193
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Current Gig: Assistant to the Producers at Goodspeed Musicals
  • Experience: Professional
Re: "I quit!"
« Reply #17 on: Feb 23, 2013, 08:57 pm »
There are things we can do - one, we can stop the high output of stage managers from our educational system (or at least hope the educational system raises the bar on the students they are putting out).  Two, we can stop accepting these no-pay or low-pay jobs.  Three, we can stop taking jobs with these horrific working conditions.  Four, we can have the guts to quit jobs that become unbearable or abusive.  (I know that many producers will just turn around and pluck someone else from the over populated work force to replace us . . . but if people just refused to work under these conditions, hopefully in the long run the working environments will change). 

Sounds like a plan! Another thing people don't think about but I always do is actually negotiate contracts. People are normally shocked by the things I am able to negotiate but I remind them that if they don't even try or ask then of course they wont get them.
"We don't negotiate with weirdos!"

MarcieA

  • Permanent Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 371
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Affiliations: AEA, AGMA, SMA
  • Current Gig: PSM, Lake George Dinner Theatre/Tri Cities Opera
  • Experience: Professional
Re: "I quit!"
« Reply #18 on: Feb 23, 2013, 10:55 pm »
Sounds like a plan! Another thing people don't think about but I always do is actually negotiate contracts. People are normally shocked by the things I am able to negotiate but I remind them that if they don't even try or ask then of course they wont get them.

Such as what? I just had a discussion with someone else about this, and it's got me thinking.
Companions whom I loved and still love, tell them my song.

MatthewShiner

  • Forum Moderators
  • *****
  • Posts: 2478
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Affiliations: AEA, SMA
  • Current Gig: Freelance Stage Manager; Faculty for UMKC
  • Experience: Professional
Re: "I quit!"
« Reply #19 on: Feb 23, 2013, 11:16 pm »
Things I have negotiated . . .

Higher Pay
Duties (on a seasonal contract)
Billing (PSM versus SM)
To be included in a press release
To be included on the web page
Approval of My Assistant / Able to bring my own assistant
Time Off  (need a cover at some point)
More Money (I am always aiming for at least 10% over minimum)
Car (or having use of a car to myself)
Dog Friendly Housing
Higher Per Diem
Longer Tech Time (I actually said I wouldn't do the show unless I got 1 day more of tech)
AEA ASM over a NON-AEA ASM
Additional PA's (Interns)
1 Round Trip Air Fare (In addition to my transport - to allow a quick trip out, or bring someone in).
Side Work (I was to be first offered any "babysitting" of the theater)
Relocation packages (remember, I mostly do longer contracts)
Time off above and beyond AEA Minimum
Equipment
ADDED -->  Travel time - sometimes I ask to come early and be housed just to get the lay of the land and/or take a break between jobs.

Everything is negotiable . . . and remember, as long as you are not a jerk about it - and can make an argument for it . . . the worst they can say is no  [BUT, AGAIN, DON'T BE A JERK ABOUT IT] - and once you sign a contract, it's hard to negotiate these things.

« Last Edit: Feb 24, 2013, 11:27 am by MatthewShiner »
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Anything posted here as in my own personal opinion, and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of my employer - whomever they be at a given moment in time.

NomieRae

  • Permanent Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 246
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Affiliations: AEA, SMA, Adelphi University
Re: "I quit!"
« Reply #20 on: Feb 23, 2013, 11:31 pm »
Quote
Two, we can stop accepting these no-pay or low-pay jobs.  Three, we can stop taking jobs with these horrific working conditions.  Four, we can have the guts to quit jobs that become unbearable or abusive.  (I know that many producers will just turn around and pluck someone else from the over populated work force to replace us . . . but if people just refused to work under these conditions, hopefully in the long run the working environments will change).

Yes!

It took several years for me to realize that working for the sake of working isn't always worth it. I would be doing some showcase in a church basement with rats running behind me next to a patch bay for lighting fully composed of orange extension cords...all for $200. It. Isn't. Worth. It. Maybe to build your resume or for a friend or a director you love you'll find your parameters are different, but everyone has to know their own price and limits. I now know what kind of salary I need to make a project worthwhile, and what contract negotiations I go into my meetings with.

I've quit two shows - one out of anger and one out of necessity. The anger one stemmed from a director who didn't care about the Equity rules or limitations and liked to toe the line with them and hated when I enforced them.  After a dreadful tech process during our last dress, the director wanted to extend photo call for one hour.  First I called a hold and told the director she had to have the GM/Producers approve the overtime before I'd even ask the cast. Once it was approved, the cast obliged for the extra pay (via unanimous secret ballot) and we moved forward. The hour ended and the director kept going... I told them we were out of time and said I needed to release the cast and the director yelled at the cast to not move. I promptly asked our TD to turn on work lights and said I was going to dinner because we were at break. The director yelled at me asking where I was going and I just turned around and said, "I quit." and walked out. I was definitely shaking out of pure anger by the time I hit the sidewalk. Our GM caught up with me down the block and we ended up ironing things out enough to finish the performances. The really trippy thing? The show did another workshop and the director requested me. We hashed out our problems and came to an understanding. I ended up doing the workshop but not the full production since I had other work lined up. So many actors returned for the second permutation and were beaming when they saw I was back.

The second was a long running gig - Matthew is so right, you like to think the show can't go on without you... but it can and it does and it should be able to. I had health issues that piled on top of an ailing parent so I decided to bow out and gave four weeks notice. They did offer me a leave of absence which was touching (I had been with the show for over a year, and since it had first come to the US) but ultimately I didn't think it was fair to leave whoever was standing in for me with no sense of when their gig would be up. 

Also, it was time to move on from that show for me, which I had known for some time, but it was very hard to walk away from the steady pay and benefits. The kicker? It closed a few weeks after I left. If I had taken the leave of absence I could have claimed unemployment... Sigh...

Do I regret either of them? Nope. It was what was right at the time and I didn't burn bridges and I did my job well while I was there. Half of my battle now is turning down jobs that I know will just make me miserable, nobody likes a martyr stage manager.

--Naomi
"First, I honor life, and with it my life in theatre." -- Jacques Burdick

MatthewShiner

  • Forum Moderators
  • *****
  • Posts: 2478
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Affiliations: AEA, SMA
  • Current Gig: Freelance Stage Manager; Faculty for UMKC
  • Experience: Professional
Re: "I quit!"
« Reply #21 on: Feb 24, 2013, 12:42 am »
Quote
The second was a long running gig - Matthew is so right, you like to think the show can't go on without you... but it can and it does and it should be able to. I had health issues that piled on top of an ailing parent so I decided to bow out and gave four weeks notice. They did offer me a leave of absence which was touching (I had been with the show for over a year, and since it had first come to the US) but ultimately I didn't think it was fair to leave whoever was standing in for me with no sense of when their gig would be up.

We often think that a good stage manager is irreplaceable.  But, in reality, a great stage manager is 100% replaceable.  Your paperwork, your calling script, everything should make your replaceable.  It's your personality and style which should keep people coming back to you.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Anything posted here as in my own personal opinion, and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of my employer - whomever they be at a given moment in time.

leastlikely

  • SM Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 137
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Affiliations: EMC
  • Current Gig: The White Snake - Constellation Theatre Company
  • Experience: Professional
Re: "I quit!"
« Reply #22 on: Feb 24, 2013, 01:18 am »
The only show I have ever quit was the last acting job I ever took. About um... 8 or so years ago, I was cast in a community show. And I quit after about two weeks of rehearsals. I STILL feel terrible about doing it, I realize it must have been a nightmare. They didn't recast my role. It was an ensemble musical, so they just reassigned my lines to other actors, and where I had the lead on an entire song, they didn't have another person who could do it so they split the song up among seven other actors. I went to see it and I felt guilty the whole time.

But the fact was, I was suicidal. It had nothing to do with the show, but I recognized the signs creeping in and I had to put my foot down. There was extraneous stress in my life and I had to remove it. I could afford the spoons to go to my day job... but couldn't spare enough to also go to rehearsal. It wasn't worth sacrificing my health and safety for. So I backed out.

I would do it again. Even as an SM. If the same situation arose... if I was in that bad of a place, I would absolutely quit a show. I'll put myself through a lot for the sake of my shows, but I can't accept any conditions that cause severe mental anguish.

In my SM life though (only about 2 years under my belt), I've never quit anything... but I have definitely had experiences where I've daydreamed about quitting, but forced myself to push through to the end, and promised myself I'm never working for that company again.

MatthewShiner

  • Forum Moderators
  • *****
  • Posts: 2478
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Affiliations: AEA, SMA
  • Current Gig: Freelance Stage Manager; Faculty for UMKC
  • Experience: Professional
Re: "I quit!"
« Reply #23 on: Feb 24, 2013, 01:39 am »
I quit a show once (gave notice during tech) - due to my partner's father passing away.

I quit a show (I knew the end was near) - long running musical, moved on to a major regional theater.

I did not re-sign a contract to leave one company, which allowed me to move on to another company.

I quite another company (Although did give them 5 months notice I was looking for something new, and 6 weeks notice I was leaving the show).

I quit two jobs months before a show (after a signed contract) to move on to MRE.

Countless jobs I have been in talks with, but passed for something better.

It happens all the time, and we move on . . .

(But trust me the first time is KILLER, YOU THINK YOU WILL NEVER WORK AGAIN).

But you move on.

It's small world, but look at how many stage managers there are in the world . . . and how many stage management jobs there are.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Anything posted here as in my own personal opinion, and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of my employer - whomever they be at a given moment in time.

BARussell

  • SM Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 193
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Current Gig: Assistant to the Producers at Goodspeed Musicals
  • Experience: Professional
Re: "I quit!"
« Reply #24 on: Feb 24, 2013, 02:34 am »
Such as what? I just had a discussion with someone else about this, and it's got me thinking.

One big thing for me is having my partner housed with me so I try as hard as I can to negotiate that into my contracts. I do try to be helpful and trade off things, like on a recent contract they offered me a car and travel reimbursement, but I knew I would have my car a couple hours away right before the contract started so I traded that for higher pay and housing for two. I've negotiated pay, duties, dates, travel stipends, a lot of those things Matthew mentioned but I also might steal some from that list...
"We don't negotiate with weirdos!"

On_Headset

  • Permanent Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 402
    • View Profile
  • Experience: College/Graduate
Re: "I quit!"
« Reply #25 on: Feb 26, 2013, 09:37 am »
Quote
Two, we can stop accepting these no-pay or low-pay jobs.  Three, we can stop taking jobs with these horrific working conditions.  Four, we can have the guts to quit jobs that become unbearable or abusive.  (I know that many producers will just turn around and pluck someone else from the over populated work force to replace us . . . but if people just refused to work under these conditions, hopefully in the long run the working environments will change).
What really kills me about these gigs is that, like... okay.

I have a friend who works as a professional photographer, and she makes a point extremely well.

There are loads of people who want her to work for way below cost, if not for free. They have good reasons, too: to build her portfolio, to network, to keep herself sharp, to explore new areas, whatever.

It may be tempting to take these gigs. But where does this story end?

If you'll happily do the work for free (and your work will be perfectly satisfactory and useful), why would anyone pay you to do it? When you work for free, you're effectively pricing yourself out of your own job market: you're saying that your services can be bought for $0.00 an hour. This does not lead to a sustainable income.

If you really really really want to work for free, by all means: do it. But she counts this as leisure time. This is something you are choosing to do on your time off. This is not work, and you should not think of it as work, because it isn't. (If you're really lucky, an NGO can throw you a tax reciept or put you first-in-line for a future paid gig or whatever else. Okay, now it counts as work. But shooting photos of your cousin's wedding? No dice.)

A similar attitude towards low-paying, high-stress theatre gigs seems appropriate.
« Last Edit: Feb 26, 2013, 09:39 am by On_Headset »

MatthewShiner

  • Forum Moderators
  • *****
  • Posts: 2478
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Affiliations: AEA, SMA
  • Current Gig: Freelance Stage Manager; Faculty for UMKC
  • Experience: Professional
Re: "I quit!"
« Reply #26 on: Feb 27, 2013, 11:38 pm »
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Anything posted here as in my own personal opinion, and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of my employer - whomever they be at a given moment in time.

Kelasaurus

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 58
  • Gender: Female
  • Live, Laugh, Love
    • View Profile
  • Affiliations: CAEA
  • Current Gig: Getting my feet wet in the industry
  • Experience: Professional
Re: "I quit!"
« Reply #27 on: Mar 04, 2013, 02:10 am »
I frequently thought about quitting my first professional post-college gig. Mostly because of being mistreated by an actor, and watching others in the company be treated much worse than I was by this same actor, despite numerous attempts to rectify it.

I looked up flights home almost every day, but I stuck it out.  In hindsight, I'm glad I did.
‎"We keep moving forward, opening new doors... because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths."
- Walt Disney

nikkiec

  • New to Town
  • **
  • Posts: 27
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Experience: Professional
Re: "I quit!"
« Reply #28 on: Feb 23, 2014, 07:31 pm »
Thanks for this thread--it made me feel a lot better about things and upcoming situation.
Done and Done

ejsmith3130

  • SM Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 155
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Affiliations: EMC
  • Current Gig: Coordinating a Move to Napaskiak AK- Harder than any show I've ever done!
  • Experience: Professional
Re: "I quit!"
« Reply #29 on: Apr 09, 2014, 10:30 am »
Is funny, most stage managers would never think of quitting a show, or calling in sick, or asking for time off - until you get on a long running gig, and especially a long running commercial gig, when you are three years into a show (or longer) you realize the show indeed goes on, and you can leave - for a day, a week, or forever. Part of being a good stage manager means making sure the show can transition and continue when you leave for a day, a week or forever.

I am in my second year at the same theatre and had to finally step up to the plate and ask for a weekend of a show off. I have a wedding the last weekend of an unconfirmed extension. I was so extremely nervous to even broach the subject, but my husband insisted that if I never asked, I would be upset with myself. I spoke to the stage manager informally first, asking what she thought, and she said to go for it and email the production manager. When I did, I got a positive response, and they will have someone fill in for me the last few shows. Then in a crazy twist, the SM's daughter finally nailed down a date for her wedding- the same weekend. So the stage management team will be replaced for the weekend.

I moved far from home, as did my siblings, so we all rarely get together at the same time. As much as I love my job, I can tell you that looking forward to an event with my entire family (something that rarely happens once a year if at all) is a real highlight.

Now I have put in a lot of time and good work to feel comfortable asking for time off, but at least now that I've asked once, I won't be so fearful the next time something really important comes up.

 

riotous