More on juggling: guilt and rejection

[juliec]

Offshoot of Matthew's "Juggling Acts" post on freelancing...

OK, I confess: I hate turning down jobs.  So much so that I feel guilty if I'm talking to 2 companies at the same time.  I've only had to choose between offers once so far, but I suspect (hope!) that there will be another time soon that I'll have to do it again because I also know it's dangerous to put all your eggs in one basket.  I have this irrational fear that the one I turn down will be so disappointed that I'll never actually get an opportunity from them again and that all the work I've done to cultivate the relationship will disappear.  And it hasn't helped that so far this has been true!  I have had to pass on several opportunities since February, and I haven't heard a peep from those companies since...  I really don't want to have a reputation as being unavailable, or a "tease" - because I am always looking, but then I feel bad if I've asked them to keep me posted and then I am booked!

It is much easier if I'm already booked, but it is more difficult if I have to evaluate, because I worry about feelings of "rejection".  Does anyone have any advice on what to do if you need to turn down an offer?  Do you explain why?  Any favorite phrases?  I'm kind of new to SM'ing, and still trying to establish a reputation, so I want to make sure that I'm not inadvertently alienating future would-be employers.

Also, somewhat related: when do you stop "looking"/applying for other jobs or take yourself off the market?  Is it when you get an interview?  When you get the call that you're the final candidate?  When you have a verbal agreement?  When you have a contract?  I usually like to focus on things I'm interested in, but I know that anything can happen...

[NomieRae]

It truly depends on the market you are dealing with - in a smaller community setting it may be wiser to not come off as unavailable, and to wait and not have too many irons in the fire all at once.

I have over the course of my career had to turn down interviews, interests, contracts, and even had to leave projects mid rehearsal or run. Is it fun to do? No. Is it sometimes necessary when a more appropriate opportunity comes along? Yes.

When turning down an initial offer I keep things very professional and light, thank them for their interest/thinking of you for the position, explain that you are already booked or have accepted other work, and wish them well on their production and that you hope you can work together in the future. In a big market like NYC there are rarely hard feelings to this kind of response, sometimes it ultimately makes them remember you because it is a good sign that you are working

When having to leave a project after already accepting or beginning rehearsals, etc is much stickier and has always been my least favorite thing to do.  If you are union it can be as simple as the other job is offering more money (which has been the case with me.) In these cases I have taken time to line up my replacement (or generate a list of suitable replacements) before sitting down with the general manager to discuss my leaving the production. Often this requires a two week resignation, but on a showcase I have left on about 5 days notice due to getting offered a tour. If done tactfully it can be a relatively painless process.

Ultimately in my experience people understand you have to move on/move up to make ends meet or make more money. Without those enticements (as in picking one project over another based on staff, content, etc) it may be harder to come up with a legit out.

 

[PSMKay]

Julie, I went back and lurked through your posts a bit. If I'm reading correctly you had to choose between an ASM gig with a large house that paid more, and a PSM gig with a summer festival. I wouldn't stress too much about not hearing from the summer festival peeps - I'm guessing they're not in hiring mode. Stay in communication with them through social media - just an occasional "like" or comment might be enough. Don't go overboard or do anything ridiculously controversial, just keep your name in front of them. That goes for the other companies you turned down for other reasons, too. Keep the communication lines open.

I'm sensing we're a bit alike in that neither of us is fond of closure. I see you still worry about the repercussions of your decision from late spring. I think before we get to how to gently friendzone an employer, it's important for you personally to learn to put your past decisions to bed once they've been made. Once you make a decision on a gig you need to commit to that gig wholeheartedly and pursue every avenue that it opens for you. If you're like me, it's tough to do this - there's always a "grass is always greener" aspect to things. But once you've made the decision, especially if you've pondered it so heavily, don't sabotage your chances by doubting yourself through the entire experience.

The other thing to remember is that given what you've said about your environment, you are not the only stage manager in your vicinity. If they ask if you're available, they're probably asking several other people too. Unless a member of the creative team has asked for you by name, you're not actually letting anyone down or breaking their hearts. Even though I lightly tossed the friendzone term around above, this isn't dating. It's a job.

As for when to stop looking, this part ought to actually appeal to the part of you that can go on forever without closure. You don't stop looking. As the article from last week about "Rebecca" told us, even in the case of a signed contract, stuff happens. If you are freelancing you are always looking for your next gig, always networking. Now, as for when you can reasonably consider your calendar to be full for the next few weeks? That would be when the contract is signed by both sides and in your hands, and not a moment before.

[MatthewShiner]

Also, somewhat related: when do you stop "looking"/applying for other jobs or take yourself off the market?  Is it when you get an interview?  When you get the call that you're the final candidate?  When you have a verbal agreement?  When you have a contract?  I usually like to focus on things I'm interested in, but I know that anything can happen...

I keep a calendar for the next 18 months on my computer.  When I am contacted or contact a company about a gig, I put a "hold" on that time, so if other things pop up that may overlap with that time period, I contact Company A and say, hey, have you made a decision yet - because Company B is offering me something that conflicts.

I NEVER take myself on the market - a show can fall through, a better/longer offer can come through, etc, etc . . . I am constantly talking to people.    But, once a signed contract comes into the picture, then I market myself accordingly . . .

I too hate turning down jobs, and I also never stop applying for jobs . . . as long as I can do it - I will apply for it . . . I never waste the producer's time by interviewing for a job I can't take . . . but would be honest .  . . "I have a contract the conflicts with the pre-production week, but my producer is willing to let me out of my contract that week for this better paying / more high profile gig."

[juliec]

Thank you so much for your thoughtful responses, advice, and reassurances!  Clearly, there are things I am still adjusting to and it is quite helpful to have a reality check.  Coming from an environment where employees are expected to drink the Kool-Aid and sell their souls to the company, to just abandon ship over more pay or a "better" opportunity seems rather...  well, mercenary!  I suspect that will take me some getting used to.

Your comments have helped me remember that there are a lot of cultural norms that are different.  Some things are so similar, and other things are so different.  Start-up culture is often very cult-like.  Loyalty to the "tribe" counts for a lot - it's friends AND family.  People care a lot about what they've created so things can get very personal.  I've found that it's very important for me to watch for people's feelings (especially because engineers usually aren't known to be adept at expressing them).  So maybe I am over-sensitive to others' disappointment.  I can't help but wonder if there's a more removed and impersonal style that would make this easier...

Also, since I'm trying to decipher theater norms, I'm going to provide a hypothetical/contextual situation:  Let's say you're in discussions about a job.  There's no offer, but the company has been very specific to let you know they are NOT looking at anyone else for the position.  Things should firm things up in several weeks.  Let's say that you really want this job, but you also realize that... well, there's no offer.  Let's also say for the sake of simplicity that the theater circuit is small, and if you are talking with others word WILL get around.  To me, although practical, it feels somewhat rude to go out looking for something else.  But if I'm understanding correctly, in the theater world, "always looking" is totally expected - it's normal and there are no hard feelings about continuing to be on the market...  Is it so?

I still feel uncomfortable about bringing up other companies and don't know when/how best to do that (would love it if someone on the hiring end has thoughts to share about what they've appreciated from candidates when a candidate is making a decision - is it even something you even care to know?).  My intention isn't to pressure anyone or anything...  I just want to be working and if someone's said they're interested, I want to treat their interest seriously and respectfully.  Anyway, hoping to have more to consider next week - if so, they'll be great choices, so it will probably be totally agonizing...  I reckon there may even be another post!

==
P.S.  PSMKay, I'm not usually one for regret or greener grass...  I make the most of it, and life goes on.  I'll admit I am a people-pleaser though...   I hate letting people down or making them feel bad.  I take it personally.  So there's that.  Also, I think you are right that there's not enough time to really know about the companies I turned down (there have been several since the summer that do not operate seasonally, so those were the ones I was thinking of).  I just love having lots of action and learning things quickly, and the hardest thing for me about this job is the inevitable waiting and not knowing...  It drives me crazy!

Can you elaborate on "friendzoning"?  I'm at a point in my career where I've already gained a solid skill set, but think it would be so much fun to be able to work with friends!  So I really like befriending.  What is "friendzoning" and what does one need to keep in mind/be careful about?

[MatthewShiner]

There's no offer, but the company has been very specific to let you know they are NOT looking at anyone else for the position.  Things should firm things up in several weeks.  Let's say that you really want this job, but you also realize that... well, there's no offer.  Let's also say for the sake of simplicity that the theater circuit is small, and if you are talking with others word WILL get around.  To me, although practical, it feels somewhat rude to go out looking for something else.  But if I'm understanding correctly, in the theater world, "always looking" is totally expected - it's normal and there are no hard feelings about continuing to be on the market...  Is it so?

If you feel confident the job is going to come thru, and risk being unemployed for that time if the job falls through, then stop looking.

But something as simple as "I would love to work on this project, let me know when you are ready to offer me the contract, and I will stop looking for other work" could express I the idea I love Job A, want Job A, but until I sign I contract . . . .

[Rebbe]

Also, since I'm trying to decipher theater norms, I'm going to provide a hypothetical/contextual situation:  Let's say you're in discussions about a job.  There's no offer, but the company has been very specific to let you know they are NOT looking at anyone else for the position.  Things should firm things up in several weeks.  Let's say that you really want this job, but you also realize that... well, there's no offer.  Let's also say for the sake of simplicity that the theater circuit is small, and if you are talking with others word WILL get around.  To me, although practical, it feels somewhat rude to go out looking for something else.  But if I'm understanding correctly, in the theater world, "always looking" is totally expected - it's normal and there are no hard feelings about continuing to be on the market...  Is it so?

Lots of us stage managers have a strong sense of commitment and dedication, which benefits our productions, so it’s understandable to feel torn between looking and waiting.  Keep in mind though that the whole process of looking for work can feel intensely personal for the job seeker, while for the employer, it tends to be just business, even in theater.  They probably have people say “no” to them regularly for various reasons.  Early in my career I worried that turning down offers would have negative ramifications, but it always turned out that I’d been stressed out for no reason; other opportunities with those companies eventually came back around.  I think it’s completely fair to talk to your hypothetical company and say you’d like to get something in writing so that you can hold time in your schedule for that production.  If that conversation makes you nervous, a smaller step might be to ask them what their timeline is for putting together a contract, so you know whether they’re stringing you along for another week, or for several months.  Even if they hear you are talking to other companies, they could think you are looking to fill out your season; I doubt they would automatically count you as out of the running for their show. 

Until someone “puts a ring on it” so to speak, I’d think the expectation would be that both you and the company are still “dating” other people, so continuing to look is OK.  Despite what they’ve said about not looking for anyone else, you never know what could happen on their end.  Until it’s in writing, another stage manager who is “looking” could proactively talk to them, and they may prefer that SM’s qualifications or connections.   I was once holding time for a show where the PM wanted to hire me, but it got put on hold because the director had a favorite SM and they agreed to negotiate with that person first.  Turned out the other SM wasn’t interested, but I certainly kept looking until it was in writing. 

[juliec]

So this is what happened:  I did receive an offer from the original company (Company A).  I was thrilled about it but nonetheless, I did not accept Company A's offer on the spot.  Some people might have agreed right then and there, and then behind-the-scenes just tied up any loose ends without mentioning a word about all this other stuff going on.  However, I have a weakness for transparency.  I wanted to be upfront and ask for some time to decide since I was already engaged with Company B, wanted to be respectful and considerate, and I would LOVE to work with them in the future.  While Company A was surprised about the turn of events, they ultimately were very understanding.  Ultimately I withdrew my candidacy before Company B made an offer at all.  Well, actually, when I told Company B, they opined that it was an opportunity not to be missed.  So that made it easy, and I was super impressed by how understanding everyone was on both sides.

There were rocky moments, but I have definitely learned something here.  (So thanks, SMNetwork!)  If I were to do it over, I would have done what Matthew recommended - a brief email *before the offer is made* that I'm still keeping my options open - so that at least they have a heads up.  It makes SO much sense now that I think about it.

With regard to Company B, the trickiest part for me was actually communicating that decision.  This one was a little easier, and I am hoping that gets better over time.  It still feels so "final" to me...  (Maybe that's what PSMKay means by not liking "closure"...)  I do wish I had communicated via phone instead of email, but I knew things were busy on their end too and had some time pressure.

I think/hope Rebbe's comment just about sums up this little episode:

Early in my career I worried that turning down offers would have negative ramifications, but it always turned out that I’d been stressed out for no reason; other opportunities with those companies eventually came back around.

I am still waiting to see, but hoping that next season will fall in line.  It's so good to know that others have been there and understand the pressure of looming uncertainty in this line of work.

[Bwoodbury]

I think the important thing is to be honest. Few professionals will begrudge you for taking the best possible gig, but many will have a problem if you're not straight with them about when you've committed. For this reason, I usually go with "I'm interested in working on this project. I'd love to sign a LOA so we're on the same page about dates until the AEA contract comes through." Everyone I've worked with has been happy I wanted to do this and while it is not a contract, it does tend to keep us both honest, and it requires us to communicate if other opportunities are being considered.