Current Pay Rates?

[Aster]

(I did a search on "pay rate" and "salary", but got no results more recent than a year old, so...)

I'm in the process of negotiating a short term contract with a ballet company, and would like to get a better idea of the current average rate for professional SMs.  Can anyone advise?

Thanks!

~ Aster

[Maribeth]

I think this is probably too broad a question.... There's a wide variety of SMs on this board, working at different levels of theatre. Here's a previous thread about salaries- there's quite an array of answers. Are you looking at a gig that would have a day rate, or a weekly rate? Is it a tour, or a local gig?

[Aster]

I think this is probably too broad a question.... There's a wide variety of SMs on this board, working at different levels of theatre. newbielink:http://smnetwork.org/forum/employment/stage-management-salary/ [nonactive] there's quite an array of answers. Are you looking at a gig that would have a day rate, or a weekly rate? Is it a tour, or a local gig?

Thank you for responding.

I'm being asked for an hourly rate and a per diem rate for a gig that will last about 2 weeks.  The major perk is that it's in a place that is a major vacation location.  My compensation package will include round trip air fare, rental car, and hotel (probably a very nice one in a fantastic location).  The downside is an extroardinarily high cost of living.

I don't generally use a daily rate.  It's been a long time since I've had anything other than an annual salary, with other things beside money factored into the package -- which I realize is very unusual for SMs, but I've been lucky that way.

So I'm really just trying to get a sense of the range that's currently out there, basically as a place to start these negotiations.

[Maribeth]

Sending you a PM.

[KMC]

Specifically addressing your question of per diem:

If you want to get an idea of what you should request for per diem the GSA and State Dept have posted government rates for domesticand international travel, respectively.

I did a quick search for a few locations I travel to often - the domestic reimbursements for M&IE seem to be about right, while the international ones seem to be on the high side of what I'd reasonably expect to be reimbursed as an employee.  But, this is definitely a good benchmark.  Are you staying at a property that's inclusive of meals?  If so, that would affect the appropriate per diem reimbursement. 

I do find it a bit odd that they're asking you to request a per diem rate.  Per diem isn't intended to be part of your compensation package, but rather to cover your living expenses while living away from home.  The rate is normally set by the company and applies to everyone.  At the company I work for we have fixed rates by location, and the same rate applies to everyone from the President of the company down to entry level site techs...

[MatthewShiner]

As a business, you need to set you the rate you need to do the work . . . yes, you need to investigate the market and see what the market will bare and support.

I usually for one off gigs, do something like
$1,500 a week - $3,000 a week
$300 a day - $750 a day
$40 an hour - $90 an hour

travel, hotel and food reimbursed at cost - or if they want a per diem, I book the hotel, and add on $75-$100 a day for food, etc.

I also try to budget rental car and parking if that is required.

If it's a more high end client, I will propose the higher amount.  If it's a non-profit, I will work with them.

A lot depends on the project and how much I want to do it . . . .

[Aster]

Thank you all!  This is extremely helpful info.

I was a little surprised about being asked for a per diem rate, too.  I've always assumed that was a pretty set-in-stone thing.  But, apparently, this company works a little differently.

Do most companies use the GSA/DOD rates, or is there a lot of variety?

This company is a nonprofit, which also makes it a little tricky.  I don't want to be greedy, ya know?  But I also don't want to be undervalued.  And I have absolutely no idea what their current financial situation is now.  When I worked for them a couple of years ago, they were on a very tight budget, and I really wanted to travel to their location, so I was willing to work with them.  But I think they're in better financial shape now.

Getting a sense of the current range is so helpful!  It looks like I was about to undersell myself.  And, given the complexity of this show (ginormous set, a gazillion props, large cast, so many costumes, flying, etc.), I really don't want to undersell.

I hate the "start high and negotiate down" thing, but that seems to be what everyone assumes, so I feel like I need to be very sure I'm not actually starting *low*.

Thank you for the help!!!  I really appreciate it!

~ Aster

[KMC]

There is a lot of variety.  I don't know many private companies that would be willing to pay the State Dept rates abroad, they are ridiculously high.  These are set by the gov't for gov't contractors, and you and I foot the bill.  There is no real budgetary constraint.  Nice work if you can get it. 

I can tell you with certainty as someone who deals with budgets and projects on a daily basis that very few project or show budgets would support a State Dept per diem rate, especially in a non-profit setting.  I work at a decidedly for-profit company, and I would laugh someone out of the room if they wanted $120+/day for meals.

The GSA rates are pretty close, though leaning a bit on the high side.  These are purely my opinions, as well.

[MatthewShiner]

Yeah, but the $120 is not just for meals, but could also include taxis, laundry and other costs.

I prefer to be reimbursed - it always feel more honest.

[KMC]

Reimbursing is my preferred option too, but a lot of companies prefer not to go that route as it adds an administrative burden in itemizing expenses, verifying receipts, etc. vs a simple flat rate.

The benefit to being reimbursed for actual expenses is that if you're reimbursed for M&IE and the amount is lower than or equal to the GSA rate, it is not considered taxable income by the IRS.

If you're paid a flat per diem rate for M&IE, it's considered taxable income. 

[Aster]

There is a lot of variety.  I don't know many private companies that would be willing to pay the State Dept rates abroad, they are ridiculously high.  These are set by the gov't for gov't contractors, and you and I foot the bill.  There is no real budgetary constraint.  Nice work if you can get it. 

I can tell you with certainty as someone who deals with budgets and projects on a daily basis that very few project or show budgets would support a State Dept per diem rate, especially in a non-profit setting.  I work at a decidedly for-profit company, and I would laugh someone out of the room if they wanted $120+/day for meals.

The GSA rates are pretty close, though leaning a bit on the high side.  These are purely my opinions, as well.

How much does the local cost of living influence what is considered a reasonable per diem rate? 

Looking at the GSA website (and the DoD site, for Alaska and Hawaii), there's a pretty wide range.  I live in the DC area, which is listed as a $71/day (meals and incidentals), as are the other high cost of living cities in the continental US -- although Anchorage is listed as $102/day and Honolulu as $117/day (and that's not even the highest rates, other parts of Hawaii are even higher).  But a lower cost of living city, like Omaha or Kansas City, is around $61/day.
Post Merge: Jun 20, 2015, 06:20 pm

As a business, you need to set you the rate you need to do the work . . . yes, you need to investigate the market and see what the market will bare and support.

I usually for one off gigs, do something like
$1,500 a week - $3,000 a week
$300 a day - $750 a day
$40 an hour - $90 an hour

How do you determine where in your range to quote for any particular gig?  (Other than whether the hiring company is a nonprofit or not.)

[MatthewShiner]

How do you determine where in your range to quote for any particular gig?  (Other than whether the hiring company is a nonprofit or not.)

All of these things will play into it . . .

1) How much money do I need?
2) What is the workload?  (Is it just one week of work, but I know there are two weeks of prep attached it?)
3) Team Size - am I doing a lot of work myself?
4) Loss of income . . . if I am stepping away from a project to take on more work - am I getting paid enough to step away from the project?
5) Comparable rate  . . . figure out what they have paid in the past for similar projects . . . what other projects that rate would pay . . .
6) Leave some wiggle room - so they can negotiate down.
7) Especially if working on a union contract - I want to make sure that I am compensated for not having an employer make health care or pension payments.
My value - what am I bringing to the table?  If it's the type of thing I have done 100 times more, I may bringing quite a bit - if it's something new . . . then maybe I cut the rate a bit
9) Reimbursement for supplies  . . .
10) Expected out of pocket expenses. . . look, there is often a weird combo of Pay + Per Diem . . . sometimes the per diem is so high, that I cut back on my weekly rate, sometimes there is no per diem, so I have to boost my weekly rate.  Also, I may need to bring on an assistant to help me . . . so I am paying that, I want to make sure I am covering those costs.