Poll

If you could license your paperwork, what license would you choose?

All Rights Reserved. (Users must pay you to use your paperwork.)
2 (6.5%)
Creative Commons. (Users may use and adapt but must credit you.)
10 (32.3%)
MIT/GPL. (Users may use and adapt but their versions must also be free to use & adapt.)
13 (41.9%)
Public Domain. (Anyone can use it or adapt it, no credit back nor restrictions required.)
2 (6.5%)
I don't own my paperwork, my employer does. I cannot license it.
2 (6.5%)
I don't use any of my own paperwork, it's all adapted from others' work.
2 (6.5%)
Other
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 31

Author Topic: POLL: Paperwork Ownership  (Read 8405 times)

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PSMKay

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POLL: Paperwork Ownership
« on: Jan 15, 2014, 08:14 pm »
The concept of paperwork as a stage manager's intellectual property has been floating around this site for some time now, mostly promoted by the pro members. However, I've noticed an uptick in individual licensing issues in the business world lately and wanted to get a more thorough "temperature check" on the sentiments of the community.

This is all tied in with the question of whether or not stage managers are "creatives" within the scope of a production team. After all, there would be no question if a production "reused" a lighting design, costume design or choreographed sequence from a prior production without credit and/or payment to the original designers. That would, of course, be immediately seen as an intellectual property infringement and nobody would consider the original artist to be overstepping if they went after the offending company.

However, the argument could be made that the stage manager's paperwork, being primarily internal and limited by the constraints of commercial office software (e.g., Word, Excel), is limited in its creativity. Additionally, it could be said that since the paperwork goes with the book and onwards to any subsequent remounts and/or published scripts, that the stage manager's paperwork by default belongs to posterity and is intended from its point of creation to be reused.  It could also be said that the creative portion of an SM's paperwork comes from the individual SM's usage thereof, meaning the paper is just a pointless tool without the know-how to use it properly.

Stage managers who have created that paperwork would of course beg to differ on the "limited creativity" point, given the amount of work required to create a truly useful and reusable form. With the slow growth of digital prompt books, we've also seen the top form creators implementing tools such as macros and databases that require considerably more effort to create over something simple like a sign-in sheet.

So within the confines of an anonymous poll, I'd like to know what your feelings are when it comes to your paperwork. If you were given the opportunity to license it, which license would you choose? Think about this not just within the constraints of subsequent productions' use, but also how you would react if:
  • A student wanted to use it as part of their research
  • A student wanted to use it as part of an extracurricular school production
  • A publisher wanted to include it in an anthology or textbook
  • Someone were to repost it here, on another tech website, or in their online portfolio claiming it as their own
  • A subordinate stage manager/PA/intern wanted to use it within the confines of your current production
Discussion also welcome, naturally.
« Last Edit: Jan 15, 2014, 08:16 pm by PSMKay »

Bwoodbury

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Re: POLL: Paperwork Ownership
« Reply #1 on: Jan 15, 2014, 08:31 pm »
Having just finished 9 weeks of copyright law so I can have a master's in Arts Admin, I wanted to point out that, depending on your tax status, there is a middling-to-strong chance that the theatre owns your show-specific paperwork under the work-for-hire section of the copyright code.

nick_tochelli

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Re: POLL: Paperwork Ownership
« Reply #2 on: Jan 15, 2014, 08:38 pm »
The company would own show specific paperwork, but not the form/template itself. My form is mine. I created it. I've improved on it. It's a tool to me just like a hammer is a tool for a carpenter.

Now having said that, if what I'm doing helps someone else sure. You can borrow the form and improve on it.

RuthNY

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Re: POLL: Paperwork Ownership
« Reply #3 on: Jan 15, 2014, 09:41 pm »
This has been discussed quite often in Stage Manager's Committee, when stage managers talk about being paid for their book and paperwork. We are indeed work-for-hire, and any paperwork we produce while employed, belongs to our employer.

However, the employer does not own the template, form, or style of our books and paperwork, only the show specific information. I believe we are free, as we wish, to share or not share our forms and formats. When I work with other Stage Managers on a show, they are all free to keep copies of all the show paperwork, if they want to, and utilize them in the future.  I have seen my templates replicated and improved on in several places, including on this site.  I only ask that if someone uploads or shares a template they got from me, that they do not claim they created it themselves. I really don't care if they give me credit, or not.

(On the other hand, I know Stage Managers who believe that the forms they create, are the reasons they get certain jobs, and these SMs are very proprietary about their work and don't share with others. And hey, that's OK too.)



Having just finished 9 weeks of copyright law so I can have a master's in Arts Admin, I wanted to point out that, depending on your tax status, there is a middling-to-strong chance that the theatre owns your show-specific paperwork under the work-for-hire section of the copyright code.
"Be fair with others, but then keep after them until they're fair with you."
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sievep

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Re: POLL: Paperwork Ownership
« Reply #4 on: Jan 16, 2014, 12:27 am »
I always supply my employer with production paperwork for archiving purposes, the driving idea being that if the show is ever remounted my paperwork could be reused for that remount, whether or not I'm hired.   

I remember heatedly discussing this issue with a fellow SM here on the boards to such an extent that the other SM left the community.  In every company I have ever worked at, and certainly now that I teach Stage Management to some degree, I have never encountered a problem with sending or receiving a previous production's paperwork so the formatting, information, or general concept could be studied, copied, etc.  I really just fail to see why anyone would really get worked up over this issue.  This is how we teach, and how we learn; and especially here at SMNetwork, if we are not here to exchange ideas then I fail to see the purpose of the community entirely.  If we punish members for asking for help, what kind of professional community are we?
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MatthewShiner

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Re: POLL: Paperwork Ownership
« Reply #5 on: Jan 16, 2014, 12:55 am »
okay, I tried a search, but couldn't find if I already did a big posting on this.

some of you know me IRL, so may have heard about this.

Look, a form is a form, and my forms are modification from previous stage managers, and it's involved - and is a summation of input from hundreds of stage managers I have had the pleasure of working with.  My call form, is my call form, and if someone likes it enough to steal it.  Fine, I really don't care.  My prop list form isn't special, it maybe unique to me - but borrow it (I mean how many different ways can you list props . . . I maybe clever how I break them down or deal with numbering, but it works for me . . . if you can take it and make it evolve for you.)

That's about format . . .

WHAT I DON'T LIKE PEOPLE BORROWING IS CONTENT DRIVEN THINGS.

I have an 8 page production list I have put together - it's sort of a stage management check list - every SM has their own form like this - but mine is detailed, and really geared for stepping into a new Regional Theater and figuring out how to quickly assimilate into a new environment.  I don't give it out electronically.  I print it out, and use it for my check list.  It's for me to do my job, and I don't turn in it - it's not required to mount, call or run the show.

I did a show at regional theater, and in a shared SM office space, I saw my check list with the next show's logo on it.  Someone from the production staff at this theater took the form out of my dropbox account, customized some stuff (basically change the in-house font and removed my name) . . . it was so obvious my form.  I have things and forms I call different things (I don't call it a rehearsal report, I have certain things I put into actors packet) - it even had my stupid misspellings in it - even my pre-production shopping list was copied and handed out.

This is a piece of paperwork that is for me, about me and my process, and to have it taken without being asked, was personally and professionally hurtful. 

So, I have become very protective over things now . . . I would rather give out a PDF of my calling script, rather then the word file, so for those who are too lazy to figure out how to duplicate my calling script, the can't just cut and past my formatting.  I have seen paperwork form my shows end up being taught in some schools - and I have no idea how that daily call form got there . . .  I don't honestly care about the form, but, yeah it would be nice to be credited . . . (For a long time a major regional theater used call form . . . and it still have the 1 pt font in white on a white background of my name on the footer . . . it warmed my heart).

So, format I don't care about . . . content . . . that's something different . . .

Quote
I really just fail to see why anyone would really get worked up over this issue.  This is how we teach, and how we learn; and especially here at SMNetwork, if we are not here to exchange ideas then I fail to see the purpose of the community entirely.  If we punish members for asking for help, what kind of professional community are we?

I think to answer this, when it's being used to teach - no problem.  But when it's being lifted because someone is being lazy, or trying to take the easy way out - or steal my "Knowledge" - then it becomes more of mean spirited thing - and that's what I don't like.

Again, I have had my thoughts changed 180 on this because of one bad apple . . .

Quote
A student wanted to use it as part of their research

No problem, please credit me.

Quote
A student wanted to use it as part of an extracurricular school production

Again, with credit.

Quote
A publisher wanted to include it in an anthology or textbook

Seems like this would be great with credit . . . and possible payment . . . especially if someone is making money off it.

Quote
Someone were to repost it here, on another tech website, or in their online portfolio claiming it as their own

This seems to be a no-brainer . . . if it is a direct lift, I would be pissed . . . if they took the form and made it their own . . . then cool.


Quote
A subordinate stage manager/PA/intern wanted to use it within the confines of your current production

Of course, and if they wanted to take the form and have it evolve to the next level or personalize - great.


« Last Edit: Jan 16, 2014, 01:01 am by MatthewShiner »
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Anything posted here as in my own personal opinion, and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of my employer - whomever they be at a given moment in time.

lsears

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Re: POLL: Paperwork Ownership
« Reply #6 on: Jan 16, 2014, 10:48 am »
I have many thoughts on this subject, both as a stage manager and as a teacher of young stage managers.

Teaching thoughts first:
I teach at a school where students work alongside a variety of professional stage managers.  Inevitably, after they do a show as a PA observing a new SM I will see them use or mimic a piece of paperwork that they encounter when they next work a school show. Sometimes that means just a minor tweak to layout, wording or format and my response is 'Great, this is what's supposed to happen, we see something we like, we adapt it to suit our style and our needs.'  Sometimes it's a major change and I have a conversation with a student about why they are using a form that is totally inappropriate for what they are doing, it overly complicates or overly simplifies what they need for a show.  Primarily this involved daily calls or reports.  There is one daily call form in particular my students try to use without really understanding when it is useful and when it isn't.

Personal thoughts about my own paperwork:
I'm generally happy if my format works for someone else and they take it and adapt it after working with me.  My paperwork is a result of working with many different people and different theaters.  When it comes to layout and design choices that are clearly recognizable, I start to hesitate.  I worked with someone years ago and liked their header so I asked if I could use it on my next show.  They said yes, they showed me how they made it so I could recreate it as I liked.  I used that for years, then switched to something else.  I was sitting in a meeting and from across the table saw a props list for a show I wasn't involved with that had the same header I had used, but all of the alignment had been screwed up and it just looked...messy, unintentional, lazy.  And I was not happy.  I don't like it when my work is borrowed poorly.  Use it, but understand why I made the choices I did and how things are supposed to relate to each other.  And, like Matthew, there are personal workflow reminders and lists that I try to avoid leaving on servers for other people to access because they are so specific to how I sort through information and work with a team.

To go back to part of the original question, the theater owns the work I create for their show, which I interoperate as the way I present the accumulated information.  I leave pdf documents and hard copies when I go.  If a theater remounts a show the next SM can have my paperwork as a resource and a starting point but will likely need to adapt to a new surrounding anyway, they possibly have their own formats that work best for their crew.  Sometimes, if the show has a set future the SM will ask nicely if I wouldn't mind sending along editable things and most of the time I do - when approached by a fellow SM I'm generally happy to help but ask that if they change things at all they take my name off of it.  But I've also been involved in and witness to some vicious fights with Production Managers about them wanting SMs to leave only editable documents on company servers.  Sometimes I hold my ground and don't, sometimes I'm too tired and it isn't worth the fight.

Maribeth

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Re: POLL: Paperwork Ownership
« Reply #7 on: Jan 16, 2014, 11:31 am »
I will say, I am glad we are having this discussion. When I first started stage managing I had NO IDEA that anyone would consider paperwork proprietary. It never occurred to me to ask someone about using or adapting their form. I am much more sensitive to that idea now.

That being said, I frequently use, borrow from, and adapt forms from other people. I often "try out" a different form on a show to see if I like it better than what I currently use, and then pick my favorite, or make a combination of the two. It seems crazy to reinvent the wheel, just for the sake of having paperwork that is "my own". But I am proud of the forms I've generated from scratch, and I like to see it when other people use and improve on them.

Now, for a homework assignment, it seems like straight up lifting someone else's form misses the point. You will more fully understand the purpose and usefulness of a form if you created it. You will know why a particular column exists, or why it's on the left instead of the right, if you made it yourself. 


Post Merge: Jan 16, 2014, 11:45 am
Another thing to consider in this discussion- when you are the SM or PSM, do you insist on the ASMs using your forms/formats for paperwork? There are merits to doing that- consistency, being sure that something is being tracked in a particular way, etc. But if you do, and have the same ASM for an entire season (or longer), aren't they likely to use that form, or something very similar, in the future? Is there anything wrong with that?
« Last Edit: Jan 16, 2014, 11:45 am by Maribeth »

sievep

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Re: POLL: Paperwork Ownership
« Reply #8 on: Jan 16, 2014, 03:05 pm »
Another point that I'd like to make, specifically with the paperwork I create in opera, is that I don't consider paperwork for me.  Paperwork is standardized in a number of opera houses across the country and that formatting was developed to provide consistency as productions move from company to company.  That formatting was developed, however, not because of the needs of Stage Management . . . it's the run crews, carpenters, flymen, and various other technician who have to read, understand, and quickly reference that paperwork that's really the important thing.  We don't create paperwork for ourselves, we create it for other people in the first place.

I worked with a lighting designer some years back who obviously loathed stage management . . .so I took him out for a drink.  After gently questioning him on the subject, his general response was "I just don't understand most stage managers.  They think that the size font that they use is their artistic contribution to the show.  Don't stage managers realize that their role in this industry is so much more important than that?"  I really took that to heart.  Perhaps that's the reason I just don't get upset about the issue of sharing paperwork.  What we do, and the art of what we do, is incredibly more important than any paperwork formatting I can create or use, and since the formatting is actually for the ease of use of other people . . . I think I have larger things in my life to worry about. 
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hbelden

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Re: POLL: Paperwork Ownership
« Reply #9 on: Jan 16, 2014, 05:15 pm »

...when it's being used to teach - no problem.  But when it's being lifted because someone is being lazy, or trying to take the easy way out - or steal my "Knowledge" - then it becomes more of mean spirited thing - and that's what I don't like.


This is the heart of the subject for me.  We work in an industry where a vast number of producers are willing to exploit the labor of their workers, and a vast number of workers who are eager to let them.  Ethically, it's important, especially given labor history in the US, that the sweat and energy of the workers is rewarded or at the very least, acknowledged; and each of us on the labor side of things needs to work towards that kind of a world.  Matthew draws a critical distinction here between the paperwork owned by the theatre and the tools he's developed in his process, i.e., what can be shown as his competitive advantage.  Asserting ownership of one of Matt's tools without his permission, as if it's no more than a standard MS Office template, is a problematic practice at best.
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PSMKay

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Re: POLL: Paperwork Ownership
« Reply #10 on: Jan 16, 2014, 08:08 pm »
So perhaps we should view it as not so much comparable to a lighting design or a costume, and more as a tool kept in the company scene shop?

i.e., if someone wants to borrow it to further our cooperative production that's fine, and if someone wants to carry their knowledge from using that tool with them into other venues that's fine, but if that specific tool is seen in use outside of the company shop you're going to get some funny looks...



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Re: POLL: Paperwork Ownership
« Reply #11 on: Jan 17, 2014, 05:32 pm »
What I've always wondered is why don't theatres, especially ones that have specific needs in their paperwork, provide the templates themselves? Pay an SM, their resident if they have one, and use the templates generated by them for all shows.
I mean, I take as much pride in a well-crafted piece of paperwork as the next SM, but there's a limit to the usefulness of individuality.
I used to have a show report form that I'd used for YEARS, in several different venues. But one day, the producing manager, of a theatre for which I was doing my first show, sent me a nasty e-mail saying my paperwork wasn't up to snuff, and they wanted data points A, B, and C, (which were kind of absurd things) and I needed to change the format is was presented in. Okay, whatever, I added the categories and moved some things around.
The next theatre I worked for, I got an opposite e-mail about a piece of paperwork I'd been using for years that said, "Oh, we don't need information X, just cut it out of reports from now on."
And then there are those remounts where I go to look at the old book and the paperwork is awful, practically illegible.
All of these issues would be resolved if each theatre had their own paperwork templates. "This is how we do the paperwork around here. This is the exact information we need in the format everyone is used to seeing it in." Sure, they can't plan a piece of paperwork that will cover every contingency, but if you need to make a new one to cover something specific for your show, you at least have an idea the sort of format the theatre likes!
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MatthewShiner

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Re: POLL: Paperwork Ownership
« Reply #12 on: Jan 17, 2014, 06:30 pm »
When I was the PSM - - - there one was only one format we asked visiting stage managers to use, which was the Performance Report.

We had examples of prop list, rehearsal reports, daily call forms, etc . . . but a the end of the day, we felt that an individual stage manager should use the form they were most comfortable with as long as it worked for them.   I firmly believe that paperwork is very personal to stage managers and reflects they way they think / break down a show, scheduling, etc . . . and to force them to use a new paperwork just will make them resent you every time the go to use that document.

Now, freelancing, I send the production manager my production report form, my performance report and daily call form for their approval.  Then we should department heads the specific form the team is using - prop list, entrance/exit plot, costume paperwork.  We work with the director on the character/scene breakdown to make sure we are breaking down the scenes the way they are thinking about the show, and make sure we are putting the right people in the right scenes.
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Anything posted here as in my own personal opinion, and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of my employer - whomever they be at a given moment in time.

MarcieA

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Re: POLL: Paperwork Ownership
« Reply #13 on: Jan 17, 2014, 10:34 pm »
What I've always wondered is why don't theatres, especially ones that have specific needs in their paperwork, provide the templates themselves?

I have actually worked at a few places where paperwork has been presented to me as a 'suggested format' and offered for my use. It was up to me as to whether or not I chose to use it. In some cases I did, or modified small things and used their general formatting. In other cases I, after checking in to be sure it really was ok to use my own, I did just that.

I've also worked at 1 company here in NYC (and know of a 2nd) that have templates that all stage management is expected to make use of. Both of these companies are large, and run multiple shows with up to 4 independent stage management teams in rehearsal/performance at a time, so it makes complete sense to me that they'd want a uniform set of materials distributed to various departments. 

For the record, I love one set and hated the other.
Companions whom I loved and still love, tell them my song.

MatthewShiner

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Re: POLL: Paperwork Ownership
« Reply #14 on: Jan 18, 2014, 10:26 pm »
Some of these responses have led me to rethink that way I submit stuff . . .

There is nothing to say they own the "digital" versions of my paperwork, just the final out come.

Just like, they don't own any forms I may use to prep the show, or steps I use to create final paperwork.

Maybe I don't turn in digital copies of paperwork, of just turn in PDFS of the form.

Something to think about - for those that want to control their paperwork.
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Anything posted here as in my own personal opinion, and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of my employer - whomever they be at a given moment in time.