Stage managing and relationships

[MusicTheatreSM]

This is an interesting topic that came up in conversation with a AEA SM friend of mine. We were talking about having a relationship with our career choice. She was asking how I made it work.
 
I am married, but it 5 years after we started dating before we got to that point. There was a lot of communication to understand each other careers and time commitments and everything that goes into being with someone who chose theatre as a career.

My husband works a standard work day, I leave before he comes home and he is ready to go to bed by the time I get home. I usually wake up for breakfast with him and then go back to sleep. So, usually we only see each other for about 2 hours in a 24hour period. It gets rough, but those black days with my company are always priceless, or those times in between shows are sacred. On the rare occasion I decide I want to volunteer on a build or something during a weekend, I drag my husband along to work with me to spend time with me.

So, my question is how do you people in relationships manage it? What have you done or not done that has kept things running smoothly?

Or even the opposite, have you ever been with someone that couldn't handle your career choice? Why?

[MatthewShiner]

I feel like we may have talk about this before . . . might want to do a search.

But I can say, my first marriage was was not helped by my career choice, and probably it's end was helped out by the fact I was not a 9 to 5.

I am currently in a great relationship with a very understanding "civilian", but we are now testing out the waters as I transition from being a resident SM to be a freelance SM - and dealing with things - like, being out of town for 8 to 10 weeks at a time . . . we are learning.  We are learning.

I think everyone needs to learn how to deal with itself; people need to be open, honest and communicate.  You need to set up your own time for you YOUR time.  It's very easy for anyone you are in a relationship to feel like they are playing second fiddle to a show, or the career - and that's something that is very hard to shake.  Considering out job is about 60 hours a week . . . it leaves very little time time (And energy) to commit to a relationship.  I have to admit, it's hard work to make it work when everything is fine in the relationship.  When things are not so good, it becomes very, very complicated.

[BayAreaSM]

I had known my husband for only 6 months before we got married (to the day). While we were dating, he came to a few rehearsals (I was still in college), saw my show and helped (and got injured) at strike. He was really into it, and encouraged me to apply for a SM internship across the country. When I got it, he also got a job in the area, so we got married and moved to California.

In the last 9 years since we moved, it's been difficult at times. After my season internship, I got a job at a ballet company, which was to our advantage. His job is Mon-Fri business hours, and so is mine, (when we're not in tech or performances). That meant only a week here or there when I would be gone all day for 6 days in a row. My husband also travels for work at least once or twice a month, and sometimes he's gone for 2 days up to 2 weeks, so that worked out OK for us. What was hard was Nutcrakcer - so like you did - I made him audition to be a Supernumerary so that we got to spend time in Saturday rehearsals together, as well as during a majority of the performances. But after 5 years of being a Super, my husband quit (it was taking up a lot of time).

Aside from Nutcracker, it got difficult during our summers, as I would go back to "regular" theater, working 6 days a week, long hours for 9 weeks at a time. His work would usually make him travel on Mondays, so my only day to see him would be cut off. Needless to say, my week off between shows became extremely important for us to get to know each other again. Sometimes those 9 weeks - we just felt like roommates who shared a bed.

The absolute worst was when he went back to school to get his Masters. While I had banker's hours during the regular season, he was in school and working 20 hours a week, so he was completely unavailable, even if he was in his home office. Then, when school broke for the summer, I was back at my regular theater gig, and by the time he was ready to go back to school, I was just finishing up. This cycle lasted about 2 years and was the most trying time of our marriage. It does mean that you have to find time somehow for each other to talk, catch up, and learn to not fall distant. Sometimes my husband had to find a way to not work on school for just a day, so that we could spend it together. And you have to find a way to get mentally away from your show and devote your energies to your husband in return.

I'll say, I'm not looking forward to my husband going back for his PhD this fall, and he will be taking classes in the summers, so regardless where I'm working, he won't be available - but we will force ourselves to find time for each other. You can't let a marriage go sour because you're just too tired from work to make your marriage work. As far as I can tell, we have been through rough scheduling times, and we've made out OK. I can't imagine what it would be like to throw a child into the mix, but we'll cross that bridge at some point.

Most important: find the time - make the time (but don't schedule it, that feels like your brain on work mode), talk with each other, spend quality time together at home or someplace peaceful, don't belabour your precious moments by unloading all of your work gripes on your spouse - and remember to kiss each other at least once a day. My husband always kisses me before he leaves for work, even if I'm still asleep, and I do the same for him on weekends.

[dallas10086]

I'm sure we've covered this before, but it's a serious enough topic that it warrants revisiting. This is just my experience so please don't think that it should relate to every couple in every situation.

When I reconnect with other stage managers and they find out that I'm married, the first question they ask me is, "What does he do? Is he in theatre?" When I say no, the response is usually, "Really?" or even "Why did you do that?" (that response was quite recent). In my case I made a mental note to marry someone who wasn't related to the field - and to be frank, at times I wonder if that was the smart or fair thing to do - and it surprised many people.

When I say we're very different, I mean night and day. He's a sports fanatic, to the point where if his friends want to know a stat they call him. Before we were married we learned open communication and to 'fight fair' before arguments escalate to full-on blow ups. "I know it's because you're busy, but..." is his usual way of saying he would like to have dinner, a date, one hour that's just us or with our son. When I have a day off and tell him I need a few hours alone, he knows I mean it. If I want to go out I make sure it's okay for him to have our son alone, but generally it is; and if he wants to go out he does the same - we don't keep track or keep score. We let each other have our stress relief away from each other if necessary and we're much more relaxed when we come together.

He didn't have a good idea of what I did initially, so he sat in a lot of shows that I SM'd; and he feels free to ask me as many questions as he wants. Sometimes I have to remember that he's on the outside, since some of the questions can be odd. But he makes a point to have an interest, and there have been moments where he realized, after seeing the finished product, that my job IS complicated, that no I wasn't exaggerating when I said 550+ cues in an hour-ten mins was quite a bit for a children's theatre production and it IS hard work that requires a lot of hours. That doesn't mean that he appreciates all of them - I have heard him snore through at least one production (though I couldn't blame him, it was a snooze).

The funniest moment was after we saw a friend's tour of "Miss Saigon" and we stopped for drinks at the hotel lobby where my friend was staying - and the entire cast and crew filed in, some of them stopping by to introduce themselves. My husband stopped talking and his eyes got big. When I asked him why, he said, "It's just...weird. I just saw them onstage and here they are - normal people."

Now that we have a three year old and my husband's gone back to school, our roles have changed, and he's done an amazing job. Now that I'm regular hours for the moment, he takes care of most things that I took care of when he was working and I didn't have a job. Gender roles had to be switched, and luckily he didn't have the famous 'Southern man's pride' when it came to cleaning the house while his wife is at the office. We're a team and we make it work.

I tell you all that to tell you that if you're looking for a serious relationship, make sure you can communicate without escalating into huge fights, maturity and understanding from your significant other is important, and always keep in the back of your mind that they may not understand why you're doing what you're doing, so you may have to go out of your way to show them - and don't forget to do the same thing for them. My husband still tries to talk baseball with me (no hope there) but I've gone from "What does a running back do?" to explaining the downfall of the Carolina Panthers after their 2003 Super Bowl loss. Yeah, a LOT of give and take!

[Joshua S.]

I'm actually not working full time in theatre because of a relationship.  We met while I was taking some time away from stage managing and had moved back closer to my home town.  Now, I'm more than ready to get back to it, but there are no paying gigs in town.  He's a teacher and absolutely loves the school he teaches at currently, so I'm remiss about asking him to move with me at this point. 

I house manage part time for a venue here in town and also do freelance design work occasionally, so that has fed my theatre bug a bit.  I also am hoping to rearrange my "real job" situation so that I can volunteer to stage manage for some of the community theatres in town, and then hopefully in fall 2012 I can start the MFA program in Stage Management at the university here, so that at least I will be doing something to further my career while I'm "stuck" here.  Four years from now (god willing we're still together) I think I'll be able to say to him "listen, I can't work here" and convince him to move with me.  After all, teaching jobs are everywhere, stage management jobs are not.

As for the actual dynamics of the relationship, well, he's a music teacher and MD's 3 musicals at his school and one every summer, so he knows how busy you get doing a show. 

[lsears]

Relationships take hard work.  Period.  No matter what industry you are in.

My husband and I have been married for five years now, after dating for three.  There are ups and downs.  The first year of our marriage I worked out of town 1/3 of the year.  We've found the communication is actually a little better when I'm out of town because we are both so intentional about having real conversations, not just a kiss goodbye when the other person is mostly asleep or emails about bills.  Skype and video chats have helped tremendously when I'm working out of town.

He works at the theater I now spend most of my time with, but he works 7:30-4, so no matter if I'm in rehearsals or shows we don't get much time together.  And it's hard to talk about work because we both look at the same exact show with very different perspectives.

The hardest thing about being a freelancer is involving him in the planning process.  The first few years he didn't want anything to do with it, and quite frankly, I wanted the choices to be entirely mine.  Then I had a terrible season where we never saw each other and when we did we were fighting.  I tried to involve him in my planning for the next season and he didn't want to participate in the decision making.  This year we worked it out together.  It was a relief making decisions that affect us both as a team. 

[Tempest]

We have hit this topic before, but it was a few years ago, and it is very worth discussing again.

The most important thing I can say is to be straightforward with the other person from the beginning.  Be honest about your mad schedule, the time commitment theatre requires, whether or not out-of-town or touring work is something you plan on doing.  If they're willing to put up with that (or it maybe even an arrangement that is to their liking!), that's a good start.

While my marriage is in the process of ending, right now, I can say with certainty that the breakup has nothing to do with my career.  I told Tommy at the very beginning, "Theatre has been in my life 20 years longer than you; if you try to force me to choose between you and my career, you will lose out."  And besides the expected, "I never get to see yooooou!" whining on tech weeks, he never did.

[maximillionx]

I've been with my girlfriend for 8 years (we're HS sweethearts).  We've made it through High School; through college in different states; myself working professionally and she going to law school at the same time; and when she graduates this May, I'm sure we'll make it through 2 professional work schedules too.

I have found recently that it's not my romantic relationship that's been suffering from the career, but my friendships with the people I have known since HS.  These people are very important to me and it's difficult to only see them three times a month.  I need to put in more work seeing them. I love my theatre community, but it's not the same.  I'm sure others can relate to this.

[MatthewShiner]

Oh don't get me started on friendships, even those in the theater don't quite get the idea of our time commitment and dedication to the production.  I have given up a long time ago on "civilian" friends - I maintain a bunch of friendships through facebook, phone calls, internet, etc . . . but at the end of the day, between show, commute, dogs, and my partner, I need time for myself.  I have sort of enjoyed the fact most of my friendships are those in the theater . . . at least they "get" what I do, and understand it.

[BayAreaSM]

I second what Matthew said. I actually find it very hard for me to keep friends outside of work/theater. I recently had a friend from college move out to CA, about 1 hour south of where I live. I make a point to see her every few months, but she is a scenic designer, so she's still in theater and not really a civilian.

The only cilivian friends I have are through my husband - and that's the only way I keep up with them - through him. I see them when he sees them. To be friends with the people you work with makes life a bit easier for me, I see my friends at work - so work is a bit more fun - and I get quality time at home with my husband and the dog, and when he's gone, I get my time for me. There really isn't time for anyone else.

[nick_tochelli]

It is a hard subject to deal with, but like a lot of people have pointed out it's hard to date someone outside of the field (though if you ask me, it's harder to date within it....have you met theater people? They're crazy, yo!)

I'm getting married in less than 2 weeks to a "civilian" as it has been put and being in the theater has been a major strain on our relationship because of what strains every relationship: Money. Sure, if you are lucky enough to work on broadway money is less of an issue. But if you have found yourself stuck in the grind of showcase hell and getting $300 stipends for a month and a half of work with seemingly no vertical movement to bigger and better things, theater becomes less and less of a career choice.

If it were just me, I would have be perfectly content grinding for the rest of my life. I wouldn't have to worry about anyone but myself. But career options can be limited by committing to a relationship and starting a family. I can't get jobs out of town, or go on tours for extended periods of time anymore. I have to make decisions that will help our relationship not put us at odds with each other. And right now, theater is putting us at odds with each other because there are precious few decent jobs out there. And with NEA's budget being cut, there will be even fewer opportunities.

I'm applying for jobs now to go back into retail management, and I'm also considering going back to school to get a degree in something else that will make a family and a future more obtainable. If it means its the end of my theater career, so be it. But my soon to be wife and I have gone through a lot to become a couple. And she is more important to me than grinding my life away for $300 a month, no matter how artistically rewarding the work is.

As for friends outside of theater: I don't interact with anyone other than theater people right now so I maintain those friendships...well lets be honest, since college I don't interact with people other than theater people. I stay in touch with college theater friends, and I do the arbitrary facebooking of people from high school and occasionally make comments on their status updates. I guess for me, I've always kept a core of close friends around me and that core changes as my life has evolved. My fiancee has her friends that she hangs out with, but because our schedules conflict so much I rarely even see those friends of hers.

[KMC]

... I'm also considering going back to school to get a degree in something else that will make a family and a future more obtainable. If it means its the end of my theater career, so be it. But my soon to be wife and I have gone through a lot to become a couple. And she is more important to me than grinding my life away for $300 a month, no matter how artistically rewarding the work is...

While my comment is off topic I feel it should be said; moderator please feel free to move if necessary.  Might I humbly suggest that a second degree is not always necessary to make a career change.  I have a BFA in Stage Management but haven't called a cue since mid 2006 (can't believe it's been that long).  I earned an opportunity to move to a corporate position outside of stage managing that paid significantly more than I could have expected to earn in the first 10-15 years of my career as a stage manager; I decided I could not pass it up.  It was a difficult decision to be sure, but I'm confident I made the correct move.

It's not an easy decision to make but the reality is you do need to earn enough money to support yourself and your children should you choose that route.  I know many stage managers who have made the shift to other lines of work.  Your skills as a stage manager are incredibly versatile and are applicable to many job roles and lines of work.

[nick_tochelli]

While my comment is off topic I feel it should be said; moderator please feel free to move if necessary.  Might I humbly suggest that a second degree is not always necessary to make a career change.  I have a BFA in Stage Management but haven't called a cue since mid 2006 (can't believe it's been that long).  I earned an opportunity to move to a corporate position outside of stage managing that paid significantly more than I could have expected to earn in the first 10-15 years of my career as a stage manager; I decided I could not pass it up.  It was a difficult decision to be sure, but I'm confident I made the correct move.

It's not an easy decision to make but the reality is you do need to earn enough money to support yourself and your children should you choose that route.  I know many stage managers who have made the shift to other lines of work.  Your skills as a stage manager are incredibly versatile and are applicable to many job roles and lines of work.

I should have made my secondary career choice clearer: I have a desire to become an educator which does require to go back to school to legally teach in New York State (except for Catholic schools).

I totally agree with you that Stage management provides one many skills that can be used in civilian life workplaces and another degree wouldn't be needed for all other career choices. And I'm using my SM experiences as comparable for retail management. I was already a retail manager in my life and I know for a fact that the two jobs are pretty similar. Now....just have to convince people that employ retail managers that I'm telling the truth about that.

[yomanda]

And besides the expected, "I never get to see yooooou!" whining on tech weeks, he never did.

I am getting married in July and my fiancé is a school teacher.  He also acts with the community theatre and often we are involved in the same productions.  I find, however, that he does far better with the crazy hours I put in to tech week than I do.  This last show it was me saying, "I never get to see yoooou!" and having the emotional melt down. 

[avkid]

I should have made my secondary career choice clearer: I have a desire to become an educator which does require to go back to school to legally teach in New York State (except for Catholic schools).

I'm not trying to be a pain or state the obvious.
Education is the last place you should be looking for a job within the next 5 years or so.
The number of unemployed teachers in NY alone will be in the thousands by September of 2011.
(my parents jointly have over 70 years experience in the NYS school system and have both stated that "this is the worst it's ever been".)
Although the private sector has begun a slow recovery the public sector has still not seen the worst effects of the "recession" and won't for a few more months.

On Topic:
I usually find it extremely hard for me to relate to people outside of the entertainment business or the construction trades.
If it wasn't for social networking I doubt I would interact with anyone outside my "worlds" at all. (except family)

(Sorry if my ADD took control here.)