Being friends with other stage managers

[MarcieA]

I did go a "stage manager party" once to try to meet more SMs and I didn't like the vibe...but I was also recovering from the flu at the time, so I'd be willing to give it a go again.

There is often a very cold, vicious, -deleted- attitude when there is a whole flock of us together.  I find meeting one on one with another Stage Manager is often better.  But even then, there is a lot of name dropping, project hyping, breast beating going on.

It's just interesting to note - as I now live in a city with a HELL OF A LOT of stage managers.

This was definitely my experience at one of 2 SM meetups I went to as well. I wasn't looking to compete, I really truly just wanted to meet people who did what I did! I didn't want to steal jobs, I wanted to LEARN from the people who had been in the city longer than I had (I had only lived in NYC a few months at this point), but there was so much posturing and standoffishness that is was very uncomfortable for me.

The 2nd meetup was much more friendly and low-key. We met at a Starbucks in Astor Place and just hung out. Great, friendly SMs.

Interestingly enough though, the bulk of my close friends here are stage managers. There has never been any animosity between us that I can tell, and we're pretty open with each other! We pass jobs, we cover for one another if someone needs a sub. We are friends first and foremost, and the best part is that we do the same job so we have a great support system of people who truly understand what you go through on a daily basis.

I would love to meet more NYC based SMs who are interested in knowing other stage managers. Even though there are so many of us, we really can be quite isolated in our work, and I think it would be great to have 'real life' people to connect with the same way we do on here.

(Edited for quoted language ~Tempest)

[MatthewShiner]

I also think there, thinking over this thread I started, I am much better at being friends one on one with other stage managers when we have more in common then just being a stage manager.

[MarcieA]

I also think there, thinking over this thread I started, I am much better at being friends one on one with other stage managers when we have more in common then just being a stage manager.

Most definitely! Hypothetically I wouldn't force a friendship only because we do the same thing. If there's no basis for being friends other then circumstance, we probably wouldn't be friends if we weren't working in the same job.

[PSMKay]

I find it interesting that this has come around again, as I wrote an article about it waaaay back in 2003.  The rapidly shrinking social circle was one of the reasons I wound up getting out of SM, actually.

You can find what I had to say about it last time here: http://smnetwork.org/forum/index.php/topic,1632.msg9560.html#msg9560

However, I have to say, competition tends to kill opportunities for friendship in many occupations.  I've noticed that it's even worse in the world of real estate - so many trade secrets and so many people spend their lives faking friendliness - it's difficult to separate the truth from the fiction, not to mention difficult to tell who's really out to backstab you.  There's very little difference between a room full of real estate agents and a room full of soprani.

[BayAreaSM]

I will say that with my current project, there are 5 Stage Managers working on different shows at the same time for the same company (which includes me). Yesterday, three of us were rehearsing at the same time, and we found ourselves texting each other on breaks, working out schedules for using a shared room, and figuring out the playing space, etc.

I've found that this project, while a bit under-organized, has brought us closer together as a group. We really support each other. (And we don't feel in competition with each other since we're all working for the same company at this exact same moment.) After my rehearsal was finished, I spent time talking individually with each of the other SMs about their day, how things were going, and letting them vent their frustrations to me, and I in return to them. I also shared information that I had that didn't seem to get passed onto them, which was frustrating for them - but at least they had information that they needed.

During last week, only one other SM was rehearsing while my show was in rehearsal, and he and I would spend at least a good half hour or more each night, after hours, talking about our day, our shows, how things were going, etc. It's nice to have someone who understands exactly what you do and what you're doing right now. Perhaps I'm just lucky to be working at the same time with these exact SMs, as I don't feel any tension/name dropping/cattiness whatsoever.

For being as stressful as the project is, it's nice to have other SMs that are going through it with me, and I with them.

[Maribeth]

but, I was wondering for those who have been able to maintain friendships with other stage managers, how do you deal with?  with the competition, the jealousy, the career envy, etc.

I wouldn't say that I have a lot of stage manager friends- I have some, and a couple more that I really enjoy working with but that I would consider "colleagues" more than friends, and a number of former SMs as friends. (Interestingly, I feel like a huge number of my friends are former stage managers....)

I think it's really easy to be envious of someone else's career- but if they are someone that I like, I'm more likely to ask them what worked for them, and have a conversation about the business, in general. There are days when I feel competitive/jealous regarding the SMs that work at the same places I do and are "in competition" with me for jobs. But, I try not to think about that- I think it's more productive to concentrate on my own career and try not to worry about what "might have been".

I'm also a big believer in career karma, that if you help someone get a job by putting their name on the table or forwarding a post, it will come back around to help you in the future.  I feel like it's worked out that way for me a number of times.   I'm more likely to have a touch of career envy for SMs I don't know personally, or I know them but don't think they are good stage managers.  Then it sucks to find out they got a job I wanted and seemed equally qualified for.

I second that- I hooked a friend up with a job recently, and got offered a show within a week. I think it was the good karma.

[PSMKay]

This subject has raised a few more questions for me.

First of all, I think if you consider workplace friendships out of the theatre setting, you're not going to find many coworkers who are friends with each other.  In very particular situations, prolonged proximity can force a certain level of intimacy - this is what happens with casts and other teams that are stuck together for a very long time.  Outside of that sort of artificial situation, it doesn't happen nearly as often, and in truth those friendships formed between actors over the course of a show are more fragile than sugar glass.  We may be more aware of how much we're NOT making friends with others when we stand next to our casts of snuggly actors, but one must realize that actor intimacy is an extreme.  In the mundane world, you generally punch in, do your job, and then go home to friends/family who don't work in the same trade.

Secondly, while the comments here have shown that being friends with other SMs can make life more pleasant, is it really a necessity or more of a luxury?  Is it something we should strive for, or just accept as it comes?

Finally, it's certainly a given that nasty gatherings of stage managers help nobody, except maybe alpha dogs in the proverbial pack.  So, knowing this, how can SMs foster a more positive sort of connection with other folks in the trade?  What have been the main factors that make a positive gathering vs a negative one? BayAreaSM is having some luck with 5 employed SMs at the same company, but had a dreadful time several years ago at someone's house.  Is there a comfort zone or safe space required? How do you get the competition to be healthy without turning into a bloody backstabbing mess, when we're talking about theatre here?

[Bwoodbury]

The SMs I get along with the best tend to be those that are a couple steps ahead of or behind me in the process. I have a lot of really close friends that are still in school or are just starting out in the SM world and I have quite a few AEA SM friends/mentors-- I'm non-union. I think it's easier for me to stay close with people that aren't applying for the same work I am.

It took me a while to realize that the way I wanted my career to go probably wasn't the way everyone else wanted theirs to go and that it was okay to talk about my plans and goals. That doesn't mean I give up postings I'm responding to or that I'll let someone copy my paperwork/resume/website templates either, though. I dunno, I guess that means competition definitely still plays into my relationships.

[MatthewShiner]

Finally, it's certainly a given that nasty gatherings of stage managers help nobody, except maybe alpha dogs in the proverbial pack.  So, knowing this, how can SMs foster a more positive sort of connection with other folks in the trade?  What have been the main factors that make a positive gathering vs a negative one? BayAreaSM is having some luck with 5 employed SMs at the same company, but had a dreadful time several years ago at someone's house.  Is there a comfort zone or safe space required? How do you get the competition to be healthy without turning into a bloody backstabbing mess, when we're talking about theatre here?

I think, oddly, this site is a really positive way to make connections over a face to face gathering. 

First off, there is a huge geographical distribution.  We aren't all competing for the same jobs.  For example, me and Heath, both are pretty similar places in our careers, aren't going up for the same jobs - we move in different circles, so it's very easy to slip each other advice . . . and feel like it's trust-able advice  (not something that will kick me the read end)

Second, there is a certain level of anonymity - well, not for me - not every one uses their real name on the board, so there is something to hide behind.

Thirdly, I think the board is heavy with younger or earlier career stage managers, that maybe more open to the interaction with other stage managers - maybe it's because it was an atmosphere fostered in school?  Maybe it's because the competition has become over riding yet, or maybe not bitterness and jadedness has taken everyone over.  Everyone is excited about the work and the craft and eager to share.  (Also, when you are young, you are more open to hearing other people's points of view.)

Secondly, while the comments here have shown that being friends with other SMs can make life more pleasant, is it really a necessity or more of a luxury?  Is it something we should strive for, or just accept as it comes?

I think it's a luxury, and we should just accept it as it comes.  Again, you are not always going to be friends with people you work with, especially people you work with on a project basis.  As I get older, I am also very comfortable with just being someone's acquaintance or friend of a friend, and using professional methods of maintaining that relationship without carving out a friendship and all that goes with that.

PSMKay is right, we are often thrown together and form very quick and tight bonds while working on the show - this leads to all sorts of issues - show romances that go awry, quick friendships that dissolve the moment a show closes, that post-show blues.  If you get a friend out a show, great for you, but as you quickly log up shows, it becomes harder and harder to form a long, lasting friendship . . . if I had a strong close friend from every show I did, I wouldn't have much time for anything else.

[NomieRae]

I think, oddly, this site is a really positive way to make connections over a face to face gathering. 

Totally agree. I have sought so much advice from these boards in the last few years and found myself encouraging my interns and PA's to use this as a resource as well.

Lately I've even started running into people/working with people's roommates/recognizing names in Playbills from the boards in real life which is always a treat. While I wouldn't consider people I post with on a forum as friends, it's still encouraging to see colleagues that you debate the minutiae of your job with are out there working and doing well

[Celeste_SM]

I have to say that I was thrilled when Matthew Shiner and I crossed paths on Facebook (accidently - friends of friends).  I also really liked it when a director paid me a huge compliment by telling me that I was "just like" his favorite stage manager - who I don't know at all - but quickly recognized the name from this board!

So hip hip hooray for this board and being friendly virtual acquaintances, if nothing more!

I have several close stage manager friends in real life, but there's only a few that I'd care to work with. Otherwise I'm happy just being friends with them and we can indivually complain (or brag) about our own projects without conflict of interest.

[PSMKay]

Running into site members is a whole lot of fun for me.  I think it's happened maybe 5-6 times in the past 5 years.  I show about 10-20 apartments each day, and the theatre community here in Chicago is large, so the chances of me getting an SM as a client are quite high.  I set off SMAdar even without all the usual bells & whistles, so I get pegged by other SMs as a kindred pretty readily.  So far nobody has automatically figured out exactly who I am even after I'm "outed" as a former SM, which is something of a relief.

Regardless, I'm glad folks continue to find the site useful as an ersatz social circle!