Poll

What is the main factor for making it as a stage manager professionally?  Discuss . . .

Luck . . . right place, right time . . .
1 (2.5%)
Hard Work . . . always wins in the end
21 (52.5%)
Perseverance . . . stay in a long enough, you are bound to be a success
2 (5%)
Who You Know . . . it's all about knowing the right people
16 (40%)

Total Members Voted: 40

Voting closed: Dec 09, 2013, 03:14 am

Author Topic: Poll: Main Factor for Making it In This Business  (Read 4871 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

MatthewShiner

  • Forum Moderators
  • *****
  • Posts: 2478
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Affiliations: AEA, SMA
  • Current Gig: Freelance Stage Manager; Faculty for UMKC
  • Experience: Professional
Poll: Main Factor for Making it In This Business
« on: Nov 18, 2013, 03:14 am »
This came in discussion with a friend as I was driving to Philly last night . . . wanted people to weigh in.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Anything posted here as in my own personal opinion, and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of my employer - whomever they be at a given moment in time.

BayAreaSM

  • Permanent Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 410
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
    • Bay Area SM
  • Affiliations: AEA
  • Current Gig: VP, Operations in AV Events
  • Experience: Professional
Re: Poll: Main Factor for Making it In This Business
« Reply #1 on: Nov 18, 2013, 03:24 am »
Excellent question. I am really torn as to which to vote for, since I feel it could be a combo of the given choices. Though I have known people from almost every option you list.

KMC

  • Forum Moderators
  • *****
  • Posts: 963
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Current Gig: Project Manager, Systems Integration
  • Experience: Former SM
Re: Poll: Main Factor for Making it In This Business
« Reply #2 on: Nov 18, 2013, 07:58 am »
I'm with Les... I am torn as well.  I typically reject the notion of "luck" as in my opinion it marginalizes the effort required to succeed, but there are others who define luck as "preparation meets opportunity, so that word is a bit of a rabbit hole...
Get action. Do things; be sane; don’t fritter away your time; create, act, take a place wherever you are and be somebody; get action. -T. Roosevelt

RuthNY

  • BTDT Editors
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Affiliations: AEA Eastern Region Stage Manager Councilor
  • Current Gig: ALABASTER
  • Experience: Professional
Re: Poll: Main Factor for Making it In This Business
« Reply #3 on: Nov 18, 2013, 10:04 am »
The real answer, is of course,a bit of all the choices. But there is something to be said for longevity!
"Be fair with others, but then keep after them until they're fair with you."
--Alan Alda

jcarey

  • New to Town
  • **
  • Posts: 48
  • Gender: Male
  • Stage Manager and Lifetime Student
    • View Profile
    • James D Carey on LinkedIn
  • Affiliations: UNCSA, USITT
  • Current Gig: BFA Stage Management, UNCSA
  • Experience: College/Graduate
Re: Poll: Main Factor for Making it In This Business
« Reply #4 on: Nov 18, 2013, 10:46 am »
Yeah... I'd say All of the above. Or at least a combination of them.
Hard work gets you a good name, but have a large network of people you know helps get your name out there. Sometimes you get a lucky break and the show you worked on becomes a big Broadway success; and I'm sure if you stay at it long enough it'll all happen.

EDIT:
On a second look, I think it also depends on what you mean by "making it".
Does "making it" mean being on Broadway? Getting your name on a program? Just getting by? Making a living? Getting wealthy? Keeping a lasting job? Keep getting various jobs?
I think it could mean different things for different people and therein it may be a different combination of those factors. (But I definitely agree that its a combo)
« Last Edit: Nov 18, 2013, 10:50 am by jcarey »
"A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."

- Douglas Adams

MatthewShiner

  • Forum Moderators
  • *****
  • Posts: 2478
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Affiliations: AEA, SMA
  • Current Gig: Freelance Stage Manager; Faculty for UMKC
  • Experience: Professional
Re: Poll: Main Factor for Making it In This Business
« Reply #5 on: Nov 18, 2013, 05:24 pm »
I think "making it" as define as making a living and working at the level you want to be working.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Anything posted here as in my own personal opinion, and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of my employer - whomever they be at a given moment in time.

dallas10086

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Current Gig: Freelance PSM; currently Charlotte Squawks 12
  • Experience: Professional
Re: Poll: Main Factor for Making it In This Business
« Reply #6 on: Nov 19, 2013, 01:11 am »
Keywords being "main factor," I have to go with hard work - eventually it pays off. I know plenty of people who got a gig because of who they knew, but they lacked the staying power.

ejsmith3130

  • SM Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 155
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Affiliations: EMC
  • Current Gig: Coordinating a Move to Napaskiak AK- Harder than any show I've ever done!
  • Experience: Professional
Re: Poll: Main Factor for Making it In This Business
« Reply #7 on: Nov 19, 2013, 10:47 pm »
I'm interested to see these results. I do agree that who you know and hard work at the two most important, but I did choose hard work. I think your work ethic can and does build relationships that you wouldn't otherwise have and therefore gives you great references. You can know someone to get a job, but if you are no good and don't work hard, that gets around and I see less of those people working consistently.

...of course there are always exceptions, but I think in general hard work is the way to go.

MatthewShiner

  • Forum Moderators
  • *****
  • Posts: 2478
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Affiliations: AEA, SMA
  • Current Gig: Freelance Stage Manager; Faculty for UMKC
  • Experience: Professional
Re: Poll: Main Factor for Making it In This Business
« Reply #8 on: Nov 20, 2013, 11:26 am »
It's funny . . . at the level I am hovering, I know a lot of "BAD" stage managers working gigs that I would love to do . . . and I know "Bad" is my definition - but lazy, poor managers of people, SMs who are more AD's who have their first do all the heavy lifting - and these people are working at he level I would all but kill to get at.  So, I am torn.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Anything posted here as in my own personal opinion, and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of my employer - whomever they be at a given moment in time.

On_Headset

  • Permanent Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 402
    • View Profile
  • Experience: College/Graduate
Re: Poll: Main Factor for Making it In This Business
« Reply #9 on: Nov 20, 2013, 12:41 pm »
One factor that I don't think we're considering is risk-taking.

Of those who graduated in my BFA class, the most successful by far is the student who took a massive gamble and got in the ground floor of a newly-established company. After a year or two of awful pay and dying fabrics in her parents' bathtub, the project has grown and grown, and now it looks very much like she has a job for life. (A job she happens to love, and which pays considerably more than a living wage.)

She was never going to get that job (certainly not at her age!) if she'd gone through the ordinary channels. Her success is down in large part to her willingness to take a considerable risk early in her career in the hope that it would pay off down the line.

But this story doesn't always end well, right? For every company formed by young and emergent artists which manages to really knock it out of the park and become a major game-changing phenomenon, there are literally dozens who put on a single show and fold immediately. (If they put on a show at all!)

And we should also consider that risk-taking doesn't exist in a vacuum. This woman had supportive parents who took care of her while she spent hear year-or-two in the wilderness. Those of us who have to immediately start paying back six figures of student debt literally cannot afford to take these sorts of chances.

Do we call this entire phenomenon luck? I'm not sure.

It does often seem that the difference between a wise risk and an unsavvy gamble is little more than good or bad luck. (Especially for emergent artists who haven't yet acquired the chops needed to tell the difference between a promising project with potential for considerable long-term success, and a complete and utter turkey.)

But her willingness to work hard, her contacts (Setting aside her friends in the industry, how do you even meet the sort of ambitious early-career artist who has this kind of vision--and how do you persuade them to make you a part of that vision--without having contacts and knowing how to work them?) and her perseverance are also pretty key.

KMC

  • Forum Moderators
  • *****
  • Posts: 963
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Current Gig: Project Manager, Systems Integration
  • Experience: Former SM
Re: Poll: Main Factor for Making it In This Business
« Reply #10 on: Nov 20, 2013, 03:52 pm »
One factor that I don't think we're considering is risk-taking.

Of those who graduated in my BFA class, the most successful by far is the student who took a massive gamble and got in the ground floor of a newly-established company. After a year or two of awful pay and dying fabrics in her parents' bathtub, the project has grown and grown, and now it looks very much like she has a job for life. (A job she happens to love, and which pays considerably more than a living wage.)

She was never going to get that job (certainly not at her age!) if she'd gone through the ordinary channels. Her success is down in large part to her willingness to take a considerable risk early in her career in the hope that it would pay off down the line.

But this story doesn't always end well, right? For every company formed by young and emergent artists which manages to really knock it out of the park and become a major game-changing phenomenon, there are literally dozens who put on a single show and fold immediately. (If they put on a show at all!)

And we should also consider that risk-taking doesn't exist in a vacuum. This woman had supportive parents who took care of her while she spent hear year-or-two in the wilderness. Those of us who have to immediately start paying back six figures of student debt literally cannot afford to take these sorts of chances.

Do we call this entire phenomenon luck? I'm not sure.

It does often seem that the difference between a wise risk and an unsavvy gamble is little more than good or bad luck. (Especially for emergent artists who haven't yet acquired the chops needed to tell the difference between a promising project with potential for considerable long-term success, and a complete and utter turkey.)

But her willingness to work hard, her contacts (Setting aside her friends in the industry, how do you even meet the sort of ambitious early-career artist who has this kind of vision--and how do you persuade them to make you a part of that vision--without having contacts and knowing how to work them?) and her perseverance are also pretty key.

We're in danger of going wildly off topic here, but I'm going to bite.  We can always split into a new topic if we get too far derailed.

To me, luck is winning the lottery.  A career break, development, promotion, success - these are the products of any number of factors, but in general terms I reject the notion of luck.

Even your example of your classmate who found success in a startup.  Is she lucky that the startup took off?  I don't think so.  It's the result of hard work, skill, knowledge, preparation, whatever of the entire team, and ultimately capitalizing on opportunity (something many people fail to do).  Is she fortunate her family was able to provide security so that she could take a risk?  Absolutely.  But to call it luck trivializes what it took for her family to get to that position.  Is she lucky to be born into that situation?  Maybe, but that's an entirely different discussion.

My opinion may seem a bit harsh, but I've found there are generally two types of people who use the word luck to describe success:

1) People who are envious of another's position in life.
2) People who are either more passive and expect something to eventually "come to them", or people who believe in fate.  This would be opposed to someone who is active, aggressive, and relentless in the pursuit of success.

Is it this absolute in reality?  I don't think so.  But it's interesting for the basis of a discussion. 
Get action. Do things; be sane; don’t fritter away your time; create, act, take a place wherever you are and be somebody; get action. -T. Roosevelt

BayAreaSM

  • Permanent Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 410
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
    • Bay Area SM
  • Affiliations: AEA
  • Current Gig: VP, Operations in AV Events
  • Experience: Professional
Re: Poll: Main Factor for Making it In This Business
« Reply #11 on: Nov 21, 2013, 03:20 am »
From my own personal experience, I'd say that there are layers to this.

I'd vote first for Hard Work. If we don't work hard and have the experience necessary, then we can't do the job. (At least in my opinion.)

I'd vote second for Who You Know. 80% of the jobs I've gotten have been because I've known someone, or had some sort of friend-of-a-friend connection to get my foot in the door. Or simply because someone gave someone else my name, and I didn't even know about it.

And third, I'd vote for Luck. Based on Hard Work and Who You Know, Lady Luck - in the case of right place, right time - has seriously been on my side for at least 90% of my jobs.

Because I'm a hard worker and have made and kept connections with various people in various positions where I have worked along the way, I just happen to be available for great jobs when they come along. A woman I haven't worked for since 2008 pops back into my life for a brief stint to ask me a few questions about Stage Managing in the summer of 2012. She comes back again in April 2013 asking if I know anyone available for a summer gig with her festival. I said I might be. By November 2013 I have a signed LOA to be a Production Manager for her festival. She knows I'm a hard worker, I didn't apply for the job - she was someone I knew and worked for in the past, and, as luck would have it, I'm completely available for the position when she needs me. I've had several opportunities just call me up when I was in need of a job - so I consider a lot of it luck. My reputation (or at least what others say about me) may precede me, and perhaps that falls back to the Hard Work category and even Who You Know, but for me - once you have those two, sometimes it all boils down to luck.

At least in my opinion, Luck has brought me my career for the past 11 years.