Internships? Pay or credit?

[ScooterSM]

We are investigating starting an internship program at our company, and are having some disagreements about what we should offer as compensation.  We would be able to offer college credit, but would like to add some other incentives other than the experience working with a professional company on a variety of shows.
Some guidelines are professional company connected to a university, large scale musicals and operas.  Would serve as primary SM in rehearsals and ASM in tech and performance.  Typical schedule is 5 weeks rehearsal, 1 week tech, 1 week performance.  There would not be housing.

 Any input or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[MatthewShiner]

I actually think that credit+$200+housing is about right.

Now, as you adjust one item, you should adjust the other.

[jrbucci]

I actually think that credit+$200+housing is about right.

Now, as you adjust one item, you should adjust the other.

I agree. Since you dont offer housing then you really should offer more money because living expenses can be pretty rough especially when you are a current college student. I am looking for internships right now and ones where there is no housing and no pay are just impossible...

Hope this helps!

[G-O gr24]

When looking for internships over the summer, I didn't apply to ones that had no housing only because I thought it would be harder to find and I wouldn't be making enough.  If you don't have housing, then you should perhaps look around the area see what it would cost to rent a house/apt/etc. and base your stipend off of that plus the cost of food, etc. 

[Lauren]

Like others have mentioned, I think that if you are not offering housing, a larger stipend should be offered in order to counteract that personal cost. I have been looking at internships, and while I am only looking at those that offer housing, most of them also offer a stipend of $125-$200 per week.

[LisaS]

I wouldn't (and didn't when I was in school) want school credit for an internship.  I didn't want to have the hassle of trying to apply the credit and covering living/commuting expenses was way more important to me.  In my eyes, having the credit on a resume was my primary concern. 

I voted for the $500 option, since housing is not supplied, the intern would need to be able to feed and house him or herself. On the other hand depending on where you are located, an intern may be able to survive on $200 a week.  The credit is important, but being able to build up a resume without bankrupting yourself is even more important.

[Balletdork]

Really? $500 per week for an intern? Let's point out that on MOST AEA contracts in this country that's more than the SM or any of the actors are making.... Maybe I should think about being an intern!

[ScooterSM]

Just to clarify, it would be a $500 stipend for the run of the show (~7 weeks work).  $500 a week would be awesome, but is well beyond any budget we would have.

Thank you all for your input.  Would it change your responses at all if there were time in the schedule that someone could have another job?  (ie only day rehearsals or only evenings?)

[LisaS]

$500 is a lot, but if it could be offered, then yes, it would be great for an intern.

On the other hand, if it's a stipend of $500 total, then the obvious answer is $100-$200 a week, it's still something you could try to live on and for a 7 week run.

[MatthewShiner]

I know I will have a very unpopular opinion here (at least from a management perspective), but let me go ahead.

If this is a true internship, that is a a step on the education ladder, and you are NOT just using the person as “cheap” labor, then I think sub-minimum wage payment could be acceptable - but, there better be someone there who is looking out for the education and the growth of that intern, there should be some sort of official educational component for their time there, and there should be a strict supervisor of their work and some sort of limitation on the hours and level of their involvement.  If you are relying on the intern to do the project, that is you can’t do the project without them, then perhaps you should be getting someone else.

After many years of hiring interns for regional theaters, I became a little torn about the purposed of these programs . . . are they just a cheap labor pool in the guise of “learning”? (Luckily, both of the programs I was PSM had a pretty good educational component, and I felt did a good job of moving them along their development).  I actually started to change they way I was looking for candidates; rather then hiring the best candidates for the job, often candidates who could get PA positions or ASM positions at other theaters, I would look for Stage Managers Interns with potential, but who were not the complete package -  they needed to have room to grow and needed to be ready to work seriously on that growth.

I am flat out against theatre companies hiring an “intern” as the low man on the totem pole for free/cheap labor with out some sort of “official” educational system put in place, and someone looking out for the education - and to be honest, that person should not be the SM of the show (perhaps the PSM of the theatre, but not he SM of the show).

I think one of the ways we can begin to place value on what we do, is to place value on all the members of our team - would minimum wage be too much to ask for for a college educated member of the management team?  (Hell, would minimum wage be too much to ask for a college educated leader of the management team on some contracts?)

This is why I think the credit component for the internship is important - it help underlines the importance of the educational nature of the position, but also helps tie to the educational years.  When you are a student, you already have other financial support in place to help support you, and you are not relying on the paycheck for the internships (mom and dad, student loans, etc.)  I know it’s a pain to transfer . . . and can lead to endless complications.  Due to the amount of educational theatre I did outside of school, when I graduated from undergrad I had enough credit to 1.75 times the credits needed to graduate . . . and I was flag as a “career” student - even though I was I only an undergrad for six years - putting myself through school with a child.  Not bad.

Now, those first positions after school, often called internships, are still an issue, but many of these either pay enough to eek out a meager life or include housing, and are part of your continued education - but I still feel like they need to have a strong educational component to warrant the low pay.

[ScooterSM]

Matthew - thank you for your thoughtful reply.  These are many of the same discussions that we we have had about starting an intern program, and whether the purpose is to fill in labor or to actually provide an educational experience for someone.  Is it ok with you if I pass your comment on to our team?

Thanks!

[MatthewShiner]

Sure Scooter

[BeccaTheSM]

When I was in school, our major required that we do an internship during at least one summer. However, the term 'internship' had a loose definition. We had to work on some level (preferably in our focus field) with a theatre.

In my hunts for an internship, even as a college student, my search was monetarily based. Of course, depending on the location, housing was almost always a necessity. Certainly, if it was close to either my home or my parents' homes, I would consider it even without provided housing. But the biggest issues for me were housing, and then affording food/gas/bills while doing the internship.

Also, at my school, getting credit for an internship was essentially irrelevant. The internship actually COULDN'T be counted for school credit. Otherwise it wasn't "independent enough" from the program.

The bottom line is you will be able to get interns with almost any offer you come up with. Sort of the if-you-build-it-they-will-come school of thought. Will the quality of interns be improved by offering better compensation? Who knows; perhaps only time will tell.