Author Topic: How to back up the career of choice.  (Read 6283 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ScoobyChitlin

  • New to Town
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
How to back up the career of choice.
« on: Dec 09, 2009, 06:53 pm »
So my parents hate, hate, hate, hate the fact that I love doing theatre and want to continue to do it for the rest of my life. To discourage me from pursuing a career in Stage Management they've assigned me the almost impossible task of looking up these following questions:

-How much does a stage manager right out of college make?
-How many stage managing positions are there in the US?
-Where in the US are these jobs mostly?
-What is the cost of living in those places.
-And what other careers I could do with a degree in Drama/Stage Management/Theatre Arts. (Besides teaching)

How would you answer these questions and handle this situation. Preferably without telling me I should just tell them they're idiots and to leave me alone.

I understand that I will probably not be stage managing constantly after I get out of college and have many side careers as "day jobs" I'm perfectly happy with doing. I do, however, want to be heavily involved as a stage manager for my main career of choice.

Any words of wisdom?
It's kind of fun to do the impossible. ~ Walt Disney

MatthewShiner

  • Forum Moderators
  • *****
  • Posts: 2478
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Affiliations: AEA, SMA
  • Current Gig: Freelance Stage Manager; Faculty for UMKC
  • Experience: Professional
Re: How to back up the career of choice.
« Reply #1 on: Dec 09, 2009, 10:03 pm »
A stage manager right out of school can make anywhere between $5,000 a year, and $30,000.00  I guess it depends by how quickly you move up the ladder.  The number of stage managers out there, working at any given time, a 1,000, 2,000?  Who knows, hard to pin down.  Most of the jobs are in major metropolitan areas, where indeed the cost of living is high.  The job tops about at about $150,000.00 a year.

I am actually siding with your parents on this.  If there is anything else that you can do for a living and still be happy (for example do theater as hobby), you are probably going to end up happier in life.

The stats are a little disheartening.  Look at AEA's annual report.  Less then half of the union members (this granted includes Actors and Stage Managers who work under AEA) less then 50% of the members work, and the average number of weeks they work was a little over 15 weeks.  (Granted, actors SKEW this amazing, but interesting facts.)  The median yearly salary was just around $7,600.00.  Looking at SM contracts, there were 27,878 work weeks . . . which means, as far as AEA work, that means there was full time work for about 536 stage managers in union.  (Yes, I know there is a lot of living wage non-union work, non-AEA work, but this is the stats I have in front of me.)  536 full time SMs?  (I bet there were about 150 stage managers work full time, about 900 working part time . . . )

Seriously, the odds are stacked against you to make a living wage in this career.

Also, I have to tell you stage managing right after college is going to be the hardest years you have to work . . . you are competing with a lot of stage managers for these entry level jobs.  And since you have less experience, you are less marketable for jobs.  (It's sort of a catch-22, I don't have enough experience to get living wage jobs, and I can afford to take low paying jobs to get the experience.)

Plus, it helps, especially early in your career, to be mobile, able to move at the drop of a hat to take a job out of town, which makes it hard as well.

Listen, staging managing is a HARD job, especially if you freelance.  The job is difficult, it's long hours, tedious (at times) work, little appreciate, low pay often very early in the career cycle (if any pay).  As you work your way up the ladder, you will find yourself working 60-80 hours a week, which makes relationships hard, and if you are lucky, and end up working 52 weeks a year, six days a week, 60-hours-plus a week - relationships are nearly impossible and exhaustion and burn out become huge factors. 

Your parents are right to discourage you from going into this career.  Too many people are entering the world of theater.  Think, there about 2,400 year-colleges/universities in the country, if only 10% have a theater program, and they only send out one stage manager a year, that's 240 new people a year trying to get one of those 536 full time work? 

I find that too many your people are "the best" of their program, and are built up to think that they can make a living in this business.  It's too often the tale - someone is in love with theatre, but can't act, doesn't design, doesn't direct -but has a passion for theater.  Someone in the program asks them to stage manage, they find they have a knack for it, and they are offer a service to the department, so soon they are stage managing more shows - and they think they can make a living at it, and the school wants to encourage them (obviously), but at the end of the day - not everyone can make in this business.  There are not enough jobs.  Too many people don't have the talent, the drive, the management skills, the leadership skills - and end up getting frustrated and spending too much time chasing a dream that is just not going to come true.   Balancing day jobs and stage managing is possibly, but you quickly learn that it's very hard to work a day job and be a full-time stage manager. 

NOW . . . I know nothing about you, your history, your dreams, your aspirations.  But, I am just saying . . . all things being equal, this is a damn hard path. 

Are you still in college?  Do an internship, get a sense of what the job is like in the real world, see how your skills are marketable.

Sorry, I don't mean to be Debbie Downer, but I don't think your parents are being idiots to discourage you.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Anything posted here as in my own personal opinion, and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of my employer - whomever they be at a given moment in time.

missliz

  • Superstar!
  • *****
  • Posts: 569
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
    • Personal Site
  • Affiliations: AEA
  • Experience: Professional
Re: How to back up the career of choice.
« Reply #2 on: Dec 09, 2009, 10:21 pm »
Factwise, I'm going to back up everything MatthewShiner said. But I wanted to say that I had parents that weren't a fan of my going into theater at the beginning, either. However, I'm not a few years out of college and they finally "get it." Here were a few things I did:

Applied EVERYWHERE. Any jobs that could pay that were in theaters. Anywhere. My dream was to move to NYC, but that wasn't really feasible. My first few jobs were not exactly what I wanted to do, but provided a paycheck AND housing. (summer stock! winter stock!) This allowed me to save money, and gave me a place to stay. Went to theater job fairs (Straw Hat, NETC).

I went to a conference recently, and one of the speakers said something I loved. A college student asked him how he'd gotten his dream job (book jacket designer), and the designer said "It wasn't my dream. But I came in with a dream, and then realized that it wasn't really feasible. So instead of abandoning it, I gave my dream a wider scope. And then I learned what I really wanted." I think it's a perfect thing to keep in mind when you're looking for your first job out of school.
I personally would like to bring a tortoise onto the stage, turn it into a racehorse, then into a hat, a song, a dragon and a fountain of water. One can dare anything in the theatre and it is the place where one dares the least. -Ionesco

planetmike

  • SM Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 197
  • Gender: Male
  • @planetmike
    • View Profile
    • Michael Clark, Stage Manager
  • Experience: Community Theatre
Re: How to back up the career of choice.
« Reply #3 on: Dec 09, 2009, 11:05 pm »
I was talking with someone backstage somewhere, and they said something along the lines that it must be easy to get paid stage manager positions, since no one wants to do it. I replied "Is it easy for actors to get paid roles?" The said "No." I said "for every show there are only one or two stage managers, but anywhere from 1 to 20 acting roles. The competition for stage managers is huge, it's even more competitive than for acting roles."

ScoobyChitlin

  • New to Town
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: How to back up the career of choice.
« Reply #4 on: Dec 10, 2009, 12:48 am »
I want to hear these things I have no problem with any of you telling me any of this. Lots of it I understand and I get but theatre is something I want to do.

Stage management was thrown at me but I've also kept up well in learning the ins and outs of the other parts in theatre. My boyfriend is a sound engineer and designer, plus works as the "fader sitter" at Zach Scott Theatre in Austin, TX for most of their main stage shows. Because of this I'm pretty well versed in the world of sound, I started off running nothing but lights for my high school's theatre program, realized I loved designing sets and attempted costume/make up but wasn't the best... My point is although I love to stage manage I'm not in the mindset that that is all I will do in a theatre. I even won a couple of One Act awards for my school in acting.

I love doing this and money is not really a huge thing for me I prefer a simple life anyway.

 My relationship is in no jeopardy as well because we work in the same field and since I'd like to stay around Austin we'd work in the same 20 theatres with each other.

I'd like to say that I have a drive for this and will work for it. But I guess that would be easier to explain by explaining a little more about me.

I'm 17, a senior in high school.
I stage managed, The Foreigner my freshman year , ASM'd Seven Brides for Seven Brothers my sophomore, SM'd Annie Get Your Gun my junior year, and am putting up Cinderella in a month. The summer after my sophomore year I went into Austin and got a stage management job working an original play at a smaller well known theatre. That following spring was hired on to fill in a crew position at Zach Scott Theatre from there last production of Beehive. Since then I've crewed for Love, Janis, The 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee, and Rockin Christmas Party (A Dave Steakley original).

So for my age I'd like to think that I'm a little more up there but I could be wrong and if so I would like to hear so from professionals.
In fact although I'm not a very active forum writer I have read a lot said and value much of what you, MissLiz, and you, MatthewShiner, have to tell me.
It's kind of fun to do the impossible. ~ Walt Disney

maximillionx

  • Permanent Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 270
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Experience: Professional
Re: How to back up the career of choice.
« Reply #5 on: Dec 10, 2009, 01:27 pm »
-And what other careers I could do with a degree in Drama/Stage Management/Theatre Arts. (Besides teaching)

A lot of jobs just want to see you have that piece of paper (a little cynical, maybe, but often true)...an individual I know is a recruiter for the Navy and proudly displays his degree in theatre on the wall of his office.  Individuals in theatre management tend to have excellent people skills, management skills, and think outside the box/creatively.  Maybe get a job working in another aspect of theatre, like a distributor (ATR Treehouse for example).  You're still involved, doing tech, meeting people, etc...

I just graduated from college and am in the upper portion of MatthewShiner's range for salaries.  I am a staff member of a local theatre in RI...but my job encompasses a llaaaawwwt more than stage management (M.E., run the show off of Qlab, sound designer, co-designer, carpenter...you get the idea).  So maybe when looking at colleges, look at following more than one theatre tracks (mine was management and tech...I even acted in a few plays).  Be as well rounded as possible, which it sounds like you are doing.  I think all SMs can agree on that!

I had the same issue with my parents..."Why don't you go into Math or Science? You were always good at those..."  Try bargaining with your parents on a second major/minor.  Also, don't throw out teaching just yet.  I never thought I would have any interest, but after TAing in college, I am seriously considering it for later in my career.

Good luck and keep us updated!

ScoobyChitlin

  • New to Town
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: How to back up the career of choice.
« Reply #6 on: Dec 10, 2009, 03:28 pm »

I had the same issue with my parents..."Why don't you go into Math or Science? You were always good at those..."  Try bargaining with your parents on a second major/minor.  Also, don't throw out teaching just yet.  I never thought I would have any interest, but after TAing in college, I am seriously considering it for later in my career.


I'm not sure what second major/minor I would want to work on.

And its not that I'm totally against teaching but right now I don't like little kids, couldn't handle the fragile state of middle-schoolers hitting puberty, and teenage brats with their pointless drama bothers me as well... Plus kids are getting dumber and sluttier. So I'd have to teach at a high school or college level and I'm not sure I'd want to stay in college long enough to get a degree to teach at a college level.
It's kind of fun to do the impossible. ~ Walt Disney

Libby

  • Guest
Re: How to back up the career of choice.
« Reply #7 on: Dec 10, 2009, 03:33 pm »
-And what other careers I could do with a degree in Drama/Stage Management/Theatre Arts. (Besides teaching)

Also, getting an undergraduate degree in stage management doesn't mean you have to stage manage. Especially if the education is well rounded. Just think how many philosophy majors there are out there...or English majors. Most of them aren't professional philosophers or, well, English teachers.

 I was talking to a Med School Professor (a friend of my mom's) and he was saying that they [his school] were constantly trying to get med students who were NOT premed  as long as the prerequisite science/math classes were there. Something about being more well-rounded. And that one of his favorite students had been a theatre major in undergrad, saying he was a smart kid who loved the science but was also good with dealing with people.

When I was 17 I was planning on going to school and double majoring in premed and stage management. Trust me when I say that my parents were NOT thrilled when I chose to go for the BFA - eventually, when they realized that I was serious and had realized that there was nothing else in the world I wanted to do... well, they got over their reservations.

missliz

  • Superstar!
  • *****
  • Posts: 569
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
    • Personal Site
  • Affiliations: AEA
  • Experience: Professional
Re: How to back up the career of choice.
« Reply #8 on: Dec 10, 2009, 04:02 pm »

I had the same issue with my parents..."Why don't you go into Math or Science? You were always good at those..."  Try bargaining with your parents on a second major/minor.  Also, don't throw out teaching just yet.  I never thought I would have any interest, but after TAing in college, I am seriously considering it for later in my career.


I'm not sure what second major/minor I would want to work on.

And its not that I'm totally against teaching but right now I don't like little kids, couldn't handle the fragile state of middle-schoolers hitting puberty, and teenage brats with their pointless drama bothers me as well... Plus kids are getting dumber and sluttier. So I'd have to teach at a high school or college level and I'm not sure I'd want to stay in college long enough to get a degree to teach at a college level.

I had the same feeling, but I got a pretty unique opportunity- teaching theater for special-needs adults. It was a state-funded class, because it was proposed as a "life skills" class- learning about personal presentation, speaking in front of a group, being comfortable in a large group, and basic problem-solving. I'm not a teacher, but using theater as a teaching tool was much more up my alley. There IS a difference.
I personally would like to bring a tortoise onto the stage, turn it into a racehorse, then into a hat, a song, a dragon and a fountain of water. One can dare anything in the theatre and it is the place where one dares the least. -Ionesco

ScoobyChitlin

  • New to Town
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: How to back up the career of choice.
« Reply #9 on: Dec 10, 2009, 05:12 pm »
Now that would be something that I would probably be interested in. But also seems like its more of a rare opportunity rather than something you can plan on without knowing that you'd most likely be going into it as more of a community service type of job.
It's kind of fun to do the impossible. ~ Walt Disney

Thespi620

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 99
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Experience: Professional
Re: How to back up the career of choice.
« Reply #10 on: Dec 10, 2009, 05:17 pm »

[/quote]

I'm not sure what second major/minor I would want to work on.

And its not that I'm totally against teaching but right now I don't like little kids, couldn't handle the fragile state of middle-schoolers hitting puberty, and teenage brats with their pointless drama bothers me as well... Plus kids are getting dumber and sluttier. So I'd have to teach at a high school or college level and I'm not sure I'd want to stay in college long enough to get a degree to teach at a college level.
[/quote]

I'm currently a Junior in college, and I went through a period of desperately wanting to teach, then decided the same sorts of things you posted about teaching, and then I had a TA gig this past summer that I adored.  Don't write it off just yet, teaching is a great way to keep things fresh and new while still being able to work on your own shows, etc. 

Also, in terms of a second major/minor, keep an open mind. Unless you're going to a conservatory, colleges will make you take general ed requirements that are some of the best classes you'll take--and they may open your eyes to a new field you've never been interested in before.  Don't think you have to have everything worked out going into college, you'll have plenty of time.
[The SM is] a very gifted, slightly eccentric master mechanic [keeping] a cantankerous, highly complex machine running at top efficiency by talking to it, soothing it, & lovingly fixing whatever is broken. 
-J. Michael Gillette

loebtmc

  • Forum Moderators
  • *****
  • Posts: 1574
    • View Profile
  • Affiliations: AEA, SAG, AFTRA, SMA
  • Current Gig: Caroling, caroling now we go — and looking for my next gig!
  • Experience: Professional
Re: How to back up the career of choice.
« Reply #11 on: Dec 10, 2009, 05:50 pm »
There is a great deal to be said for going to college and finding out what you love. You are in high school - that's not to say you don't know what you want and you won't end up as a stage manager, but there are so many things yet to learn, so many things to expose yourself to. You may decide you want theater to be your avocation, in which case may places will be thrilled to have a volunteer who knows what they're doing. You may decide you want to design sets or lights or sound, which is a great career choice. You may choose SMing as a vocation, but the vital skills you need for a long-term career are often best gotten from learning about other things, from studying the world and history and language and science, as well as interacting with people and just plain ol' growing up and learning how to focus on what's important and let the rest go, how to get folks to do what you want/need constructively; these all come with time and experience.

In the meantime, volunteering at all levels of theater in your area will teach you so much!



dallas10086

  • Superstar!
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Current Gig: Freelance PSM; currently Charlotte Squawks 12
  • Experience: Professional
Re: How to back up the career of choice.
« Reply #12 on: Dec 10, 2009, 06:29 pm »
We were just talking about this last week I think. Because stage management allows you to become adept at other things--office management, event management, even carpentry, prop building--you can be open to other jobs where your skill set fits well, a job that pays the bills and a job that fuels your passion.

I'd recommend reading the book "Slash Careers". It is full of people who have more than one career but excell at all of them because they have a passion for more than one thing, or they are so closely connected the two naturally mesh well. Right now I'm a stage manager/mom (oh yeah, definitely a job!)/after school care teacher.