Author Topic: Helping with SM Homework  (Read 5540 times)

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RuthNY

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Helping with SM Homework
« on: Apr 13, 2013, 10:33 am »
I have to say this, as I've been thinking it for a while. I have participated in a lot of homework assignments, but i think it's unfair for the student to ask SMs to write out their answers, in essence writing the essay for the student. I am not going to participate in this manner, much, any more. I feel it's doing the work FOR the student, so they can cut, paste, and rearrange to their heart's delight. Now, if a student would like to PM me, and arrange to get my phone # or Skype id, etc. and interview me, then do all the transcription and organizing of said interview, combining my answers with the answers of other, yes, I'm more than happy to do that.  But, I think I will no longer answer questions in writing for Homework Help, under most circumstances.

I love to mentor, I have mentored many young and upcoming SMs. But from now on, if you want homework help, well, it's your homework, you do 99% of the work. I'm taking a leave from writing essays, perhaps a permanent one. Is this hard-line? Perhaps. But I did my High School/College writing on a manual typewriter. No internet. It's time for the upcoming generation to "do-it-themselves."

I am not trying to be unkind or disrespectful, and this is not aimed, personally, at the most recent Homework Help poster. I've been thinking it for a while.  Your thoughts?
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VSM

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Re: Helping with SM Homework
« Reply #1 on: Apr 13, 2013, 11:02 am »
I am right there with you, Ruth...
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MatthewShiner

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Re: Helping with SM Homework
« Reply #2 on: Apr 13, 2013, 12:35 pm »
I also agree with this . . . it does seem very close to writing it for them.

I think they are trying to be considerate of our time, but in reality, typing it all out often times takes longer.
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Anything posted here as in my own personal opinion, and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of my employer - whomever they be at a given moment in time.

Maribeth

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Re: Helping with SM Homework
« Reply #3 on: Apr 13, 2013, 01:23 pm »
I was thinking about this a bit last night. I do like the idea of helping these students, since I have no problem with local SM students interviewing me in person or over the phone. But I agree that a verbal interview is a better way to handle it. It also allows for a dialogue with the student where they can more easily ask follow-up questions or clarifications, and doesn't put quite the burden on the SMs to do the lion's share of the work.

Who knows, maybe more SMs would be willing to undertake some of the homework requests if they are a request for a phone interview, with the questions posted with the request.
« Last Edit: Apr 13, 2013, 06:40 pm by Maribeth »

loebtmc

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Re: Helping with SM Homework
« Reply #4 on: Apr 13, 2013, 04:20 pm »
That's kinda why I stopped responding, unless qqs were very specific and I thought I had something to add. Too many years of teaching - I really don't want to do someone's work for them, not even including taking credit for my input. I will chat w someone if I have time, and I will respond in specific rather than general situations, but too many essays have taken their toll.....

Bwoodbury

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Re: Helping with SM Homework
« Reply #5 on: Apr 13, 2013, 06:04 pm »
I just wanted to add that I'm working on my MA in Arts Administration and I always give the option to talk on the phone or via email and so far no one in worlds of upper theatre management, government agencies, and consulting has wanted to answer my questions via email. They almost never even want to see the questions I'm asking. It's not going to print, so they don't want to write me a press release. I think if this is a trend for the higher ups in the biz, maybe it's fair for it to start trickling down to us. Plus, I'm going to get a lot more out of a conversation than I will typing answers and so, probably, will the student.

PSMKay

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Re: Helping with SM Homework
« Reply #6 on: Apr 13, 2013, 09:34 pm »
A huge portion of our membership consists of students and the teachers who refer those students to SMNetwork. Between them, the link from wikipedia's entry on Rehearsal Reports, and our mentions in stage management textbooks like Stern and Kelly, the word on the street is that we accept students. Pair that with the closed nature of both the SMA forums and Control Booth, we must acknowledge that we are one of the few online venues where young SM's have even a shot at finding guidance. I was just barely past the intern phase of my SM career myself when I started this site. It has always had a large educational portion. We cannot ignore our student members.

Now, this doesn't mean that we should mollycoddle them either. In an ideal world, students would plan ahead for their projects, visit us early in the semester, read the rules and spend several months establishing their "street cred" in our little community before they ask for help. I do not doubt that we have several members who have done exactly that, and have obtained their answers slowly over the course of regular conversation through the year without us even detecting that they were using us for school help. I'm also sure (based on the site stats) that many students find the answers they need without needing to register or comment.

These types of issues tend to crop up towards the end of each semester when last minute folk hit the boards looking to have us save the day. We have tried through our student policies to make it difficult for these unprepared folk to have an easy ride - the barriers for entry are high and our moderators are trained to go to every possible length to prevent hit and run posts. After all, students who wait to the last minute are not going to make good stage managers. Even so, we must realize that for every successful stage manager there will be many, many bad ones out there who don't read the rules, cannot follow directions, do not plan ahead, and generally do not know how to behave in a professional forum. We don't want to let these bad apples spoil it for the good guys with potential.

My personal view is that we should first try to a) rehabilitate them through strict enforcement of the existing rules and b) ignore them if they don't come up to the high road with us. That being said, this is your community - I just run the servers.

There is something to be said for forcing stage management students to communicate with us on our terms. Their success will depend heavily on their ability to reach out in person, rather than hiding behind mass emails and digital methods of communication, especially when they get to dealing with fussy designers and actors who are not always the most tech savvy.

From a technical perspective, the quick fix is to disable replies for Homework Help. Students with at least 5 public posts would still be able to add their projects, but follow up would have to occur in private. However, this would prevent written contributions that do emerge from these projects from being used by future readers who find the answers via search. Some good content has come out of Homework Help discussions and I do worry that taking them private will harm the community warehousing of our collective knowledge. It may also result in a lot of redundancy.

The other route we could take would be to switch to a more formal mentorship program. This is just an off the cuff rough, but in theory:
  • SMs can opt in to be mentors. This would require that they provide us with contact info (phone and email), experience level, and sign in at least once every 60 days.
  • Twice a year (September and January), if we have unpaired mentors, we can open the field for 3 month long pairings.
  • Students would be paired at random with a mentor at a higher career level in the same country. No further screening would occur.
  • If we have no mentors, no pairings will be allowed for that term.
  • Students must be willing to commit to the full 3 month mentorship agreement.
  • These would be volunteer pairings. No guarantee will be made that the pairing would be good or beneficial to either party. No restrictions would be made on how the mentorship would proceed, although certainly regular conversation would be a plus.  ;)
  • Posts on the current Homework Help board would be distributed to their pertinent boards, and the board would be deleted.
  • All requests for homework help outside of mentorships would be banned. Open calls for mentorship pairings would become the only opportunity for students to get some form of "Homework Help." If they miss the open call or no open call occurs due to lack of mentor interest, too bad.
This would encourage the good, well-prepared stage managers while blocking the slackers completely. However, I would need someone to run the thing, because I'm certainly way too busy to handle something like this. I could theoretically hash out the code for tracking if mentors have logged in recently, but I've been working 12-14 hour days since January with only 2 days off, and no sign of a break until October. Also, this still does nothing to help build our knowledge base here on the site, which must be my first concern.

Further thoughts and refinement are appreciated, but let's not point fingers at any particular members. There's currently no crying in stage management, but I don't want this thread to alter that for any of our members, young or old.

Jessie_K

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Re: Helping with SM Homework
« Reply #7 on: Apr 13, 2013, 09:51 pm »
I have no issue with the idea of having the Homework Help board.  As Kay has said there have been good things discussed there.

And I agree with Ruth that some of the requests there do seem like the students are asking up directly to do their homework for them.  (A recent request was particularly irritating in that regard) 

I do not think we should remove the section because it can be beneficial. 

I think what I will do in the future when I see a request that is like the one I mentioned, instead of just ignoring it, I can reply with a request to narrow the scope of the questions and prompt an actual discussion.

RuthNY

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Re: Helping with SM Homework
« Reply #8 on: Apr 13, 2013, 11:18 pm »
I have no issue with the Homework Help Board continuing to exist here at SMNetwork.org. I am not suggesting any kind of change with the nature of that Forum or the well-thought out rules/guidelines that Kay has put into play. I simply am opting out of answering questions in written form. I think we should allow students to put a call out for SMs who might want to answer questions via phone or video chat, letting us know ahead of time the nature of the questions/project. Then, SMs who are willing to participate can work out the details privately with the student. The same way we inquire about e-scripts publicly, and then make arrangements (if any) privately. I do not wish to discourage SMs of any level or generation from using this site as a reference, or from asking questions via the site. Not at all.
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loebtmc

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Re: Helping with SM Homework
« Reply #9 on: Apr 14, 2013, 11:17 am »
Ruth's point exactly. I have no issues with helping out or being a mentor - I train new ASMs/SMs all the time. But I don't have any interest in doing someone's homework for them. If a student takes the time to look for answers here and still has questions, I am far more likely to weigh in. And if they want to stay in touch and open a conversation, that's great too!

And yes, many great discussions and good details have come from homework forums when the person asking cites examples of problems or asks abt specific circumstances.

PSMKay

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Re: Helping with SM Homework
« Reply #10 on: Apr 14, 2013, 05:39 pm »
I'm wondering if we're blaming the wrong people here. Students only know what they're taught, and they will do as instructed. The kids who are pestering us and taking advantage of us do not have good study skills, but that is not entirely their fault either. Yes, there are a handful of self-starting type As out there, and those are the types who should really be stage managers, but even those kids can hide under a cover of slacking if they aren't properly taught how to do research.

Teachers don't assign specific questions. Many do this in the hopes that their students will learn project design and critical thinking over the course of the project, but I think in this day and age that this may be too optimistic.  Meanwhile, most students in stage management classes have never stage managed outside of a classroom setting. They won't know how to formulate those questions. They have no context. They have no training. I don't know a lot of colleges that offer mandatory "how to research" distribution credits, and heaven knows it isn't being taught in the high schools these days.

The professors - especially for the community and state colleges - are not stage managers by trade. They are set designers, TDs or scene shop foremen who have been pressed into service to teach SM. These schools are not going to shell out to hire someone specifically trained in stage management. A professor with specific experience and connections in stage management is not going to need to send their students here, or if they do it will be as a backup resource. They will have the necessary connections and skill to connect their students with first hand sources through other means.

The answers that you guys have already provided are extremely valuable. I don't mean to belittle them at all. I also don't blame those of you who have had enough. The buck doesn't have to stop here. There comes a point when charity becomes enabling.

Membership and participation in this community is always voluntary. There are no obligations. You don't need to feel guilty for penalizing poor scholarship. But maybe we'd be better serving these kids with a course in proper first-hand research, with examples.

 

riotous