Dropping Cards?

[sourc3]

I'm currently SMing a production of Alice in Wonderland and for the final scene there's going to be a huge hustle and bustle of activity as everyone is whirling around/offstage and Wonderland is dissolving around Alice. We want to drop playing cards from the ceiling to add to the effect, but our TD is currently swamped (two guys building a huge multi-level stage, with him being one of those two guys, and the other being a full-time student who can only work 2-3 hours a day) and it would be too time-consuming for him to build the necessary clamps/rig them before our show (we open the last weekend of January). Has anyone else ever done something like this before, and know of a simple way to do it? If you're at a theatre where you have the necessary stuff built, could we purchase/borrow them from you? Either PM or e-mail me at the address listed in my profile if that's the case, or if you have other ideas, please share them. Thanks!

[kiwitechgirl]

It's not too difficult to do; get yourself a piece of reasonably narrow MDF which runs across the stage and use lighting safety bonds or sash cord along one long edge to attach it to the grid (or a flying bar, depending on your venue).  At the two corners of the other edge, attach sash cord or thin (but strong!) rope which then runs through pulleys on the grid/flying bar and down to a convenient operation point.  Put enough tension on the cord so that the MDF board sits level, and load with playing cards.  On cue, let the tension off the cord so that the board swings to the vertical (you may have to attach fishing weights to the edge to give it enough weight to fall) and the cards will drop!  Or, get an ordinary small domestic fan, mount it on a flat board, pointing at the board.  Put the cards on the board and with some experimentation, you should be able to make the fan blow the cards off the board.  I've done this successfully with snow, but haven't ever tried it with anything like playing cards, but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work.  You can also use animation disc motors to turn other things around - my chief LX has just built me a glitter drop using a chicken wire "cage" holding a cup full of glitter on an animation disc motor, which works like a charm - but you'd need to be careful about how much weight you put on one.  Hope that helps!

[megf]

kiwitechgirl's mention of snow makes me think of a snow bag...

All you need is muslin (or any soft, relatively light and sturdy cloth - repurposed bed sheets will do) and two free, adjacent pipes. Rig a "bag" between the pipes that is however wide the card-drop area needs to be, and at GO your rail op will run one of those pipes as far down as the cloth bag allows - thereby emptying the contents over the stage.

I've seen this set up in houses that don't have any built-in flying items; similar idea, with three to four pulleys spaced out over the bag, and an individual line run to each pulley. PM me if you'd like a more detailed explanation

Best of luck!
Meg

[sailor_sam]

Thinking outside of the box here...

if you have a pit or a trap door that could be opened on stage- you could put a large fan sitting at an angle and have someone release handfuls cards in front of the fan, it would create is cool effect with the wind and Alice's dress. (and you don't have to worry about a few pesky cards getting loose and fly in during the next scene.)

never tried it, but it is just an idea if you don't have a lot of time or fly space.   

[sourc3]

Thanks for all the responses! I've gotten some good ideas.

I suppose I should've mentioned this originally, but this is a black box theatre. It will end up seating ~200. The grid is 23 feet (7 meters for you non-Americans) off the deck. We don't have ANYTHING set up in terms of rigging, so I'll end up having to rig everything myself.

-David

[sourc3]

Thinking outside of the box here...

if you have a pit or a trap door that could be opened on stage- you could put a large fan sitting at an angle and have someone release handfuls cards in front of the fan, it would create is cool effect with the wind and Alice's dress. (and you don't have to worry about a few pesky cards getting loose and fly in during the next scene.)

never tried it, but it is just an idea if you don't have a lot of time or fly space.   

Just so you know, we're doing this. At first I thought "We don't have a trapdoor, the floor is concrete under about 6 inches of a wood stage that 's there." Then I realized that "Oh wait! Our TD is effing nuts! He built us an 8 foot platform with a trapdoor in it!" So we're going to get two of those giant floor-drying fans and blow hundreds of cards out of there. Still working on a ceiling drop as well, but that's going to take significantly more work and time, and I'm not sure we can spare that right now >.<

[avkid]

Then I realized that "Oh wait! Our TD is effing nuts! He built us an 8 foot platform with a trapdoor in it!" So we're going to get two of those giant floor-drying fans and blow hundreds of cards out of there.

We absolutely must see photographs of that!

[sourc3]

The stage just got painted today - all in black since we're going to be using the 130+ lighting instruments to color the stage. I'll bring my camera tomorrow, take some pictures, and post them. We're also getting the show videotaped, so I'll post snippets of that up here. Also, the idea for blowing cards out the drapdoor was nixed Fortunately enough, we have walkways on both sides that we're trying to blow cards in from now. The issue is that due to the lower ceiling, we can't hang card droppers from the ceiling because they'll get stuck on the lights and catch on fire. If we hang them from the grid, they have to be at least 3 feet below the grid (again, due to lights) and that will just look tacky. *sigh*

Oh, if you want to get a sense of the style that this show will be done in:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y9ti32vqdxM

The director of my show did that little piece a while ago. Except that instead of a flat surface, my actors will be going up and down very narrow steps on the shoulders of the guys dressed in black. I'm absolutely terrified for their well being, because they will literally be over 7 feet in the air with no railings, some of them wearing immense and difficult costumes. *shudders*

[sailor_sam]

glad i could help.

hope it works out.  please post a few images, i would love to see how it turns out for you! 

[sourc3]

The show won't be entirely in that style, but the people dressed in black are called "Chinese Propmen" (a PR nightmare to put in the program, we're working on that, in reality, it was the Chinese who invented the style - not a derogatory term at all) and we're going to have them in every scene. In the scene where Alice is in the rabbits house getting the gloves and fan and gets huge, we're going to have the people in black manning giant puppet limbs, and also making the 'pebbles' fly through the air and turn into cakes. It's all very complicated and we're hitting "ohbugger" phase right now, but it will all come together soon enough. It's a "Mimodrame" by definition, so we'll have to see how it all comes together? *keeps fingers crossed*

I apologize for the poor image quality, these were snapped by my phone. You'll notice three poles, though they're kind of hard to see, running vertically across the top of the stage. There are flat 6'8" panels that will be rising out of the floor to use as transmogifiers allowing Alice to change from marionette puppet size to her huge room-filling self. We're having those chinese propmen hauling out huge legs/arms/hands/feet that will literally fill the room when all is said and done.


Stage left. The Lighting Designer is the individual in the picture. He's about 5'10" for a point of reference


Stage right. These pictures were taken from the third row.


Taken from the back row looking at the stage. The gap in under the stage in the center will be filled by a revolving door.


This is the grid. There will be over 130 lights on this grid - all the lights the facility we're in has without getting into their old-skool lights (the square ones that have the lenses that can be flip-flopped to get different throw angles... I forget the name, but it starts with a B)

[Scott]

The show won't be entirely in that style, but the people dressed in black are called "Chinese Propmen" (a PR nightmare to put in the program, we're working on that, in reality, it was the Chinese who invented the style - not a derogatory term at all)

Why not just call them "Kabuki Propmen" or just "Kabuki" or some-such?

[zayit shachor]

Why not just call them "Kabuki Propmen" or just "Kabuki" or some-such?

Kabuki is Japanese.

[jmc]

This is the grid. There will be over 130 lights on this grid - all the lights the facility we're in has without getting into their old-skool lights (the square ones that have the lenses that can be flip-flopped to get different throw angles... I forget the name, but it starts with a B)

They are 'BARNDOORS' mate - used for masking on a Fresnel [Soft edge] lanterns!

[Scott]

Why not just call them "Kabuki Propmen" or just "Kabuki" or some-such?

Kabuki is Japanese.

Well, I don't think the idea is that the play is being set in China -- it's that they are using the person in black on stage moving props, which is a kabuki innovation (unless I'm forgetting my world theatre.) 

[Scott]

This is the grid. There will be over 130 lights on this grid - all the lights the facility we're in has without getting into their old-skool lights (the square ones that have the lenses that can be flip-flopped to get different throw angles... I forget the name, but it starts with a B)

They are 'BARNDOORS' mate - used for masking on a Fresnel [Soft edge] lanterns!

Ummm...think he may talking about what we used to call "beam projectors" -- ellipsodals that focus in that way he described.  (Maybe a Strand product...?)

Barn doors are not old school  -- they're still used with modern fresnels.  And they aren't used to get different throw angles but used instead to cut the light beam -- like shutter cuts on an ellipsodal (which is what I think you mean by "mask" -- but if someone refered tot he masking ona fresnel, I would assume they meant a piece of scenery or soft goods blocking the instrument from sight.