Author Topic: Bows  (Read 22962 times)

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ChaCha

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Re: Bows
« Reply #15 on: Jul 19, 2007, 11:55 am »
It is not uncommon in professional (not for profit sector)dramatic theatre in Australia to have a choreographed acknowledgement of the sm/crew (cast indicate to booth/ps or wherever) during curtain calls. But it would never happen in opera or ballet.  And it certainly isn't 'standard practice' even in straight theatre.

As others have mentioned in this thread and others -I didn't become a stage manager for the applause but it doesn't bother me if the director chooses to publicly acknowledge the behind the scenes contribution. Conversely I would never expect it or be upset if it didn't happen.

Amazing how custom dictates our acceptance of practice, isn't it? I don't find it amateurish if its part of a rehearsed call, but that is just because its within parameters of 'normal' here.

Also Centaura's comment - a good crew is an unnoticed one - i totally agree during a show but intellectually
i don't see why they shouldn't be acknowledged before (in a programme) or after (in a call (but NOT by coming onstage!))...

ChaCha

sara0521

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Re: Bows
« Reply #16 on: Jul 19, 2007, 05:37 pm »
Thanks everyone!

smsam

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Re: Bows
« Reply #17 on: Jul 19, 2007, 05:55 pm »
Never Ever Ever in England/ The UK!
I have never seen nor worked on a professional show where the crew/ smgmnt etc. took a bow or were gestured to by the company during there bows. And thank god it is that way!

The only people, I believe, the cast should acknowledge/ gesture to during the curtain call is the band/ orchestra if applicable but never ever the crew!

x
Sam x

zayit shachor

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Re: Bows
« Reply #18 on: Jul 19, 2007, 06:29 pm »
At the theater I work at (US) it's common practice for a gesture to the booth to be added to the curtain call.  I was surprised by this, though.

RobertMillsSM

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Re: Bows
« Reply #19 on: Jul 19, 2007, 06:48 pm »
In observing many professional theatre companies in the US, it is acceptable and occurs often for the cast to recognize the SM/crew by gesturing and applauding in the direction of the SM. In a musical, this is the last recognition, preceeded by the cast gesture and applause to the orchestra/band if it exists. As to who decides this...??? I'm sure that some directors place it in the curtain call, while there are also casts that just do it because they know how much the show depends on the SM/crew.

It appears to be done less often in straight theatre. But it does happen and is not considered faux-paux. Also under the same circumstances as a musical as to who decides it's going to be done. In the last play that I worked on, the cast did not gesture towards the booth until the final performance. That night the gestured and applauded to the work of me and my assistant (the only crew). This motion was not originally placed by the director, but added by the cast.

No matter who decides to put this action in (or to not), the SM usually doesn't have a say in it. If you are asked, that is one thing, but it would be impolite for the SM to ask the cast/director for a gesture and applause in your direction. Likewise, it could be seen as rude and not in full support of the show/cast/crew/director/designers/etc... if you asked for them to NOT gesture and applaud your work. In general, as an SM an applause/public recognition is not guaranteed nor the reason we do this job. If it is offered, it should be accepted with grace and dignity for we all know how much work we put into a show. But by all means, make sure your name is in the program - that is the minimal amount of recognition we deserve and usually have no problem accepting. If you feel like the simple gesture and applause is too much, learn to deal with it - would you rather the cast pull you on stage and take an actual bow in front of a full house?

Lastly, I just saw a production of Cirge du Soliel's Corteo in which the entire cast and musicians came on stage and performed their bows. Then at the same moment all turned inwards (the show was on a circular stage and performed in the round) and applauded the crew as they ran in 2 lines (one from SL to SR and the other from Sr to SL) giving each other high fives. Not a bad way for the cast and audience to quickly recognize the crew that flawlessly (hopefully) operated an extremely technical production. (I assume that this move was definitely created by the director.)

MatthewShiner

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Re: Bows
« Reply #20 on: Jul 19, 2007, 07:14 pm »
Seriously?

Seriously?

I have been doing this for 15 years professionally, at some major regional theatre, commericial productions, and I have seen a hell of a lot of theatre.  I HAVE NEVER SEEN IT DONE.

I would like to know what level of theatres people work at where this done, before we give advice out to people say it is typical, normal, standard or acceptable.

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GalFriday

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Re: Bows
« Reply #21 on: Jul 19, 2007, 09:15 pm »
It is done on Corteo. I have friends from the original crew - two are my current roommates. They appreciated the gesture. Cirque touring shows, especially Corteo and Quidam (where I worked), are quite technical and run with very small crews. The crew is very much a family and the instinct is to recognize them. I enjoy that they made the nod but felt the crew high fiving across the stage was a bit amateurish.

I have an excellent crew who run an amazing show each night. The only time they have been onstage was for the 6,000th show. The artists stepped into the house and the entire crew stepped out onstage to take a bow. That was nice, but a very special occasion and truly a celebration of the great people that have kept our show around for 13 years. I would certainly not want to do it every night.

I feel fully appreciated in each and every one of our standing ovations even if I am standing behind the audience.
"Now the best way to learn the theater, always, is to be a stage manager" - Stephen Sondheim

butch

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Re: Bows
« Reply #22 on: Jul 19, 2007, 09:47 pm »
Regardless of how common or professional crew recognition during the curtain call is, if it was added by the cast, the SM really should put a stop to it. We put a lot of work into maintaining the integrity of the show, and I believe that we shouldn't let the curtain call ruin that work.

Balletdork

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Re: Bows
« Reply #23 on: Jul 20, 2007, 08:54 am »
Seriously?

Seriously?


I'm with you my friend-- I've been at this for 26 years- 15 as an SM and have never seen it either- at any level of school or community and certainly not professional.  :-\

ChaCha

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Re: Bows
« Reply #24 on: Jul 20, 2007, 12:34 pm »
I find it quite fascinating that people have such strong opinions about this. I am not sure why it is so controversial - I do get the argument that ' if you want applause you are in the wrong job' -but if it is neither sought out by you, nor expected by you, but rather offered by your colleagues (ie Director. I do agree with Butch that if the Director didn't put it in, it shouldn't be in) why is it deemed so unacceptable by those who are unfamiliar with the practice? Or am I misinterpreting people's words here?

I find the cirque example a good one - those shows couldn't happen without the crew's expertise and teamwork - why should the audience not acknowledge that? Be taught that?

As ever on this site you will find as many opinions as there are people on the boards, and many different experiences of 'normal' etc. It seems pretty clear to me from the posts on this thread, that in the matter of acknowledgement of crew/smt in a curtain call it is quite possible for two different people who have earned a living for 15 years as a stage manager to have had opposite experiences. I say this because I have earned a living as a professional stage manager for around that length of time and worked with many of Australia's leading theatre companies and I have seen it done. Clearly Matthew hasn't. Well we do work on different continents so I guess it isn't surprising. But SM Sam says never in the UK and JessieK says she just finished working with Brits who all did it...

viva la difference!
« Last Edit: Jul 20, 2007, 12:37 pm by ChaCha »
ChaCha

Rebbe

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Re: Bows
« Reply #25 on: Jul 20, 2007, 12:56 pm »
Since “customary” varies so widely depending on environment, I think it’s helpful when we clarify where our opinions are coming from.  In my experience working in (and watching) equity productions at the SPT level, it is not customary to give a bow to the SM or crew.  The curtain call is usually choreographed by the director, and we wouldn’t change that anymore than the rest of the show.  That said, I have seen casts add gestures to the booth and/or backstage on the final performance of a show.  When I’ve been on the receiving end of this gesture, I appreciate their thoughtfulness, but I’m not sure the audience gets that the cast is acknowledging me and the crew, and not the audience itself.  I do see a difference in adding something special for the last show, and doing it every night of the run.  In theaters that do a pre-show speech, I’ve heard them add a special thank you to the SM and crew on the last night, and get applause for them then, which I think is nice.   As a mater of taste, I hate seeing a good show capped by a sloppy curtain call, and brining crew onto the stage, let alone the SM who one would think should be calling the show at that time, feels awkward to me, but in some situations I could see it working.
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avkid

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Re: Bows
« Reply #26 on: Jul 20, 2007, 02:50 pm »
I did it once, right before I quit doing musicals in High school.
I was sort of an extra though.
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SM_Todd

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Re: Bows
« Reply #27 on: Jul 21, 2007, 07:26 pm »
While stage managing a production, my cast gestured to me in the booth on closing night.  It was a sweet, unexpected gesture. 

centaura

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Re: Bows
« Reply #28 on: Jul 23, 2007, 08:29 am »
Quote
Also Centaura's comment - a good crew is an unnoticed one - i totally agree during a show but intellectually
i don't see why they shouldn't be acknowledged before (in a programme)

I probably came across a bit harsh with that comment, I totally want the crew to be listed in the program, or given such other acknowledgements.  I guess my feelings about seeing the crew, or having the crew recognized at the end of curtain call (with the possible exception of the last show in a run) - I'm not crazy about the idea.  To me it feels like a magician giving away how he did his trick to see a crew at the end of a show - up until then everything that's been happening is 'magic'.  To me, the magic is less magical if I'm reminded that there were people back there doing things.

I don't know if I'm making sense; its hard for me to even get that feeling of 'magic' anymore with shows, as I live tech, but in the rare occasion when I can get into a show and forget - it would be a let down at the end of the night.

I also agree with the person who commented that they weren't sure if the audience undstood the gesture to the booth.  I don't think they would - 90% of non-theatre folks I meet have no clue what a SM does, let alone where they would be doing it in a theatre.

ChaCha

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Re: Bows
« Reply #29 on: Jul 23, 2007, 11:46 am »
Quote
To me, the magic is less magical if I'm reminded that there were people back there doing things.



Fair enough! I don't think I'd feel like that but I can understand that you would/others might.
ChaCha