MUSICALS: Orchestras moving out of the pit

[loebtmc]

Where do you stash your orchestra?

Interesting article:

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2012%2F03%2F24%2Farts%2Fmusic%2Fmoving-orchestras-out-of-sight-maybe-even-out-of-the-theater.html%3Fpagewanted%3Dall&h=PAQHOqkOj

Edit to subject line-Rebbe

[ReyYaySM]

In case you don't want to activate the facebook social reader:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/arts/music/moving-orchestras-out-of-sight-maybe-even-out-of-the-theater.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=orchestra&st=cse

I love seeing the conductor and knowing without a doubt the music is live.  I also love when I see young children walk up and look over the railing and wave down to the musicians.  It's part of the theatre magic and the experience.  I have not been to see a musical where the pit was in another room/building so it's hard to comment on what the show sounds like.  Just because technology has advanced to a point where producers can do this doesn't mean it should be a national trend. 

[loebtmc]

(Thanks for cleaning up the link - I wasn't sure how to bypass!)

And yes, it's an interesting conversation - I also love seeing the live musicians and how many actual instruments, what kind of systems they are using, how they cram them in, how many men vs women, where they stash certain things etc. I know for several shows, the drum kit is in another building so it doesn't blast everyone else out of balance, but the whole orchestra? wow! Not sure I like this trend....but interesting nonetheless.

[Bwoodbury]

I recently did a world premiere musical in a venue without a pit, so we had the 5 piece band backstage. It took up so much real estate that pretty much all of the set pieces (everything was on wheels or sliders and configured in different ways in relation to one another to form the different settings) had to originate from one side of the stage. Transitions were not nearly as clean looking as they had been in rehearsal (when we were under the impression we could move scenery from a loading area straight to stage. And it was so. hard. to talk to my asm on comm. In the future, definitely not a venue I'd like to play with live music, unless it's going to be onstage, which I have also done with much more success.

[loebtmc]

I am wondering if anyone has dealt with this whole in another building/in the basement thing and might share some perspective or experience. Did it work for cues? Did you have any actual interaction with the conductor or any of the musicians? Did you have to provide a whole new set of coffee/tea and run around for a second set of far-afield calls? Please share details if you have worked this way.

[Mac Calder]

I have done an event with the orchestra in another room. The sound guy loved it - he basically didn't have to worry about battling the stage sound at all, but that was in a practice room with the walls all treated with acoustic dampening. If they were in just a regular room (say a small hall etc) where he would have had to worry about reflection etc, he would not have been so happy.

Communication was just like with an orchestra in a pit, except we added "Stage Cam" using a plasma on a stand at the back of the practice room for the conductor, and we had "Conductor Cam" on the balcony rail for the guys on stage. Cue lights and coms were run to the conductor.

We used Aviom personal monitor mixers for the orchestra, so they could mix their own private foldback mix based on 8 sub mixes (Male vox, Female Vox, Click, Woodwind, Kickdrum, Percussion, Brass & Strings IIRC)

Venue managed all the catering requirements, so no idea what happened there.

It was corporate awards show, so we only had to do the show twice and the cues were rather basic. It was made a bit more complicated by the fact that the orchestra performed a dinner set - requiring us to quickly create a full orchestra setup on stage for 1 1/2hrs of the show before banishing them back to the rehearsal room for the rest of the show.

[Deuteronomy75]

As there are many venues were conductor is seen by performers mainly via camera and monitor (I remember some opera setups where set designer and director used all possibilities of modern theatre, that the singers could NOT see the conductor "eye to eye"), I can agree with Mc Calder from technical point of view - mainly with non-professional bands and orchestra (my main job field), I would often prefer to lock them away and leave the decision of sound volume to the audio mixer guy and not to the the orcestra/band members who prefer louder and louder monitoring ("i do not hear myself...").
But I think it is a psychological thing: You hear what you see. So, if there's no orchestra visible, first impression for the audience would be "music is playback". And, to be honest, there are some productions that cut costs by replacing booth choirs and some live instruments by playback - a lot of musical shows done here in Germany are so precisely timed, that the use of a clicktrack and synchronizing the rest of the live part with the pre-recorded tracks is not a big deal for conductor and other performers.

[SMrose]

I've done several musicals where the orchestra was not in the pit but upstage on a tall platform.  The orchestra was "part of the show".  Scenically, they were made to look like the placement was logical ( A few examples: Cabaret--part of the night club, Anything Goes--the ships band).  There was no line-of-sight to the conductor, just stage audio monitors so the cast could hear the orchestra.  Another group I worked with used a small space with a pit that puts the heads of the musicians way above the stage floor so they resolved this by putting the orchestra behind the cyc.  They used a video monitor to the conductor and audio monitors to the cast.  This theatre group moved to a new space that was designed for them and the orchestra pit in the new space is really sunk below stage deck level.  Conductor sits on a platform and there is a cut out for him/her only.  Pit floor is not removable so sound has control over orchestra volume.
I saw Jersey Boys a few years back--orchestra in another room.  Can't make up my mind if I missed seeing the orchestra--loved the show.

[bex]

The last musical I did had an orchestra that we ended up moving 3 times before we ended up putting them in another room entirely.  The usual "pit" (not technically a pit, but a hallway backstage with view of the stage for the conductor & conductor cam on balcony rail for cast) had some water damage & was not usable.  We tried the band in the moat- WAY too loud. We tried the band in the balcony (old movie theatre, there aren't actually any seats in the balcony for patrons) because they'd done it before... only after we had a disastrous dress rehearsal where nobody could hear anybody except the drums did the producer remember that the last time they put the band in the balcony, all of the musicians were playing electric instruments and produced no sound that did not come out of the speakers.

Final solution was to put the band in the paint shop, which is connected to backstage but technically separate.  We ran video for the conductor & the actors and a comm for the conductor, and everything ended up working out really well.  The band liked it because they didn't have to dress up- no audience saw them.  The sound guy liked it, the actors liked it, it wasn't any farther for my rounds pre-show because the way to get backstage from the booth was to go through the paint shop anyway.

We did add something to the preshow speech about the music being live, though. 

[LizzG]

Our 4 piece band is on stage in 2 different platforms that rise above the stage, so we never use the orchestra pit, and we just seat it with audience.  But we've toured in several venues where the pit cannot move, so all tours that come through have to put their orchestra somewhere backstage, even if they normally use the orchestra pit.  Interesting to go back and forth from pit to backstage depending on venue, I'm sure.

[Stringfellow]

I did a production of Amadeus where we put a full Orchestra, an Opera Chorus and 26 actors on the stage at the same time. When the show was in discussions, I thought (silently to myself) that this is going to make the stage so incredibly crowded, but I have to give major props to the set designer. Not only did he design an elegant set that accommodated the full orchestra and Opera but it allowed the perfect amount of playing space for the actors. Not once did the stage look crowded or in-cohesive. He put the orchestra in the middle of the stage on the stage floor. And build two sweeping ramps that swirled up from the sides of the stage towards the center of the stage. On the stage right side of the ramp there were two platforms that allowed playing space for the actors (one ramp had a baby grand piano on it as well) and the actors also had space in the very front of the stage. On the stage left side of the swirling ramp was a platform at the top where the Opera Chorus was staged. To this day this is one of my favorite productions that I have ever worked on.

[pyromnt]

For my current show, Little Shop of Horrors, we are using a pit cover. Therefore, there is no space for the orchestra/pit band. We are stashing them in our normal handicap area for people with wheelchairs and are taping off our front row specifically for people with handicaps. Originally we were going to have them backstage with a monitor, but we need some space for the large plant.
 

[kiwitechgirl]

Look up Opera on Sydney Harbour (my current gig).  The orchestra is in a studio underneath the stage (but not underwater!) with a big-screen behind the audience so the cast can see the conductor.  I've done it in musical theatre before, but never have we done it in opera - however it's working surprisingly well.  The players have had to get used to playing with headphones, but they have their own mixing desks for foldback (the Aviom system) so they can adjust what they're hearing - and of course they can hear their own acoustic sound, just not the singers.  The conductor has FOH cam but no-one else can see the stage - however that's pretty normal for them.  Of course, being an outdoor gig, the singers are all amplified anyway, so the mic'ing of the orchestra can be balanced precisely with the singers, and fortunately we have a brilliant and wonderful sound engineer at the desk - which reassured the orchestra quite considerably.  There have been comments from a few punters asking why we can't see the orchestra, but we bring them on stage for a curtain call which makes a difference.

We're also doing something similar for an upcoming production of Die Tote Stadt where the orchestra won't physically fit in the pit (they would if it wasn't for the celeste, harmonium, piano, second harp and bass bells) plus the set designer wanted to use the pit space.  So they're in one of the smaller theatres at the Opera House which is, as it happens, a really nice space for them to play in.  It will be a little trickier from a sound point of view because the singers WON'T be amplified (although they'll be wearing radio mics for foldback purposes) but now that the Harbour gig has opened successfully and the musicians know what they're up against, it will be fine.  Fortunately we have the same sound engineer which will also make things easier.

We had some fun bumping the Harbour gig in - how often do you see this:

[loebtmc]

(as a former harpist, I LOVE this picture! thank you for posting)

[BayAreaSM]

This was not a show I was involved in, but rather one that I played patron. It was in Paris for Opera en l'air. We saw Rigoletto - and I was blown away by the set.

It had two parallel platforms, with stairs between them. Between the two platforms (basically under the top platform but recessed a bit below the lower one) was the orchestra. There were two monitors - one DR and on DL - that showed the maestra. When the opera singers were on the top platform, they could either look down at her, or they could watch a monitor. When the singers moved to the lower level, they watched the monitors - but the best part when they went to the lower level: the maestra would turn her head to look at the singers, or sometimes even turn around or turn sideways to see them, all while still conducting.

It was the most amazing non-stop night of opera I'd ever experienced. And all the while I was mesmerized by maestra and how she kept the orchestra together while twisting and turning to see her singers. (We ran into her after the show at a local coffee house - quite a lovely person!)